Teen stabs her newborn over 100 times, throws her in garbage...

[Burninator]

Originally Posted by Calgaryborn

Jesus never called upon the government to cease administering law and order. If your going to imply that the standard we are personally called to
should be applied to the State then you must believe that the government should forgive all criminals for their first 490 offences. Fortunately the New Testament doesn't say that.

Originally Posted by Azure

And he also set up the government, and never specifically mentioned that capital punishment should be withdrawn.

In fact...

A verse in Romans 13:

Does the New Testament recall that we should kill people who work on the sabbath?

[Calgaryborn]

Originally Posted by PYroMaNiaC

....and another thread boils with religion.

Personally, I'm surprised that no one has figured out that the Bible makes no sense at all. Any other really good, publicly acclaimed, prize winning book at least has a consistant story.

Actually it was boiling before Christianity got into it. Now its mellowed into a discussion.

As far as the Bible making no sense: Perhaps to some. There are millions who have embraced its truth and found the book perfectly rational. I would suggest of those who find it confusing many would have to confess little effort put in.

[Burninator]

Originally Posted by Calgaryborn

As far as the Bible making no sense: Perhaps to some. There are millions who have embraced its truth and found the book perfectly rational. I would suggest of those who find it confusing many would have to confess little effort put in.

I can't speak for all, but for me the more I learn about the bible and organized religion the less sense it makes, and the more it scares me.

[Calgaryborn]

Originally Posted by Burninator

Does the New Testament recall that we should kill people who work on the sabbath?

You sort of answered your own question. The New Testament is just that: A New Testament or covenant. It isn't just tweeking the Old Covenant; it is replacing it. Galatians and Hebrews speak extensively about this. Galatians says the Law was a "school master to bring us to Christ". What he meant was that the law showed us the impossibility of being good enough. No one could keep the 300 and some laws within the Mosaic covenant. We needed a Saviour.

[PYroMaNiaC]

Originally Posted by Calgaryborn

Actually it was boiling before Christianity got into it. Now its mellowed into a discussion.

As far as the Bible making no sense: Perhaps to some. There are millions who have embraced its truth and found the book perfectly rational. I would suggest of those who find it confusing many would have to confess little effort put in.

Religion. Not Christianity. Christianity is based on the New Testament. You're using Old testament to back up your arguments.

and I have lots of religious background and fully embraced "the truth" as you so nicely put it until I regained my mind. There were entire years of soul searching, so your "little effort" comment raises my hackles.

[Burninator]

Originally Posted by Calgaryborn

You sort of answered your own question. The New Testament is just that: A New Testament or covenant. It isn't just tweeking the Old Covenant; it is replacing it. Galatians and Hebrews speak extensively about this. Galatians says the Law was a "school master to bring us to Christ". What he meant was that the law showed us the impossibility of being good enough. No one could keep the 300 and some laws within the Mosaic covenant. We needed a Saviour.

But you are advocating execution (state run in this case, I assume). That doesn't seem very New Testament like to me.

[Calgaryborn]

Originally Posted by Burninator

I can't speak for all, but for me the more I learn about the bible and organized religion the less sense it makes, and the more it scares me.

Fair enough. Organized religion is generally corrupt and just plays lip service to God and the Bible. Many bend with society in order to find
acceptance. Others create there own laws in order to control and profit
from people. Some just cling to the traditions they were handed because it is comfortable. One should be scared of these traps.

Also, how does one know they have the truth and aren't fooled like the
guy down the street who seems so sure he's right? It's a tough question
that an honest man must ask himself. I would think that the question needs to be asked repeatedly upon ones journey, as well. Not just at the beginning. Faith should never be closing your eyes and believing. It's eyes wide open taking in all that can be seen and knowing there is much more over the next hill.

[Calgaryborn]

Originally Posted by PYroMaNiaC

Religion. Not Christianity. Christianity is based on the New Testament. You're using Old testament to back up your arguments.

and I have lots of religious background and fully embraced "the truth" as you so nicely put it until I regained my mind. There were entire years of soul searching, so your "little effort" comment raises my hackles.

Christianity is based on the whole Bible. The first mention of the gospel is found in Genesis 3:15. That was long before the Law was first promised and delivered to the Israelites. Capital punishment was commanded before the law was given as well.

I can't speak to your religious background or what you once preceived to be "Truth". I wasn't there. I'm sorry that your regained mind has made the scripture ineffectual.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Burninator

I can't speak for all, but for me the more I learn about the bible and organized religion the less sense it makes, and the more it scares me.

How can it scare you if it doesn't make sense?

[Calgaryborn]

Originally Posted by Burninator

But you are advocating execution (state run in this case, I assume). That doesn't seem very New Testament like to me.

In the New covenant God doesn't address a particular nation but, rather each of us as individuals. He isn't setting up rules for an earthly government but, rather calling folks to a heavenly kingdom. But receiving reconciliation with God: aka- the forgiveness of sins doesn't remove us from this world, the rule of law,taxes, ect. We are still accountable to our neighbor and government. What Christ's sacrifice fixed was our relationship with God. We are no longer a condemned sinner waiting the execution of the sentence.

[AC]

Originally Posted by Azure

How can it scare you if it doesn't make sense?

I think the fact that it doesn't make sense in conjunction with the hypocrisy and the contradictions upon contradictions is what's scary.

[Burninator]

Originally Posted by Azure

How can it scare you if it doesn't make sense?

Along the lines of what Anthony Cool said, and coupled with the fact that religious people like yourself are advocating things like execution because of your beliefs which are based on something I consider to not make sense. As you would understand I am not very comfortable with that.

[PYroMaNiaC]

Originally Posted by Calgaryborn

Christianity is based on the whole Bible. The first mention of the gospel is found in Genesis 3:15. That was long before the Law was first promised and delivered to the Israelites. Capital punishment was commanded before the law was given as well.

I can't speak to your religious background or what you once preceived to be "Truth". I wasn't there. I'm sorry that your regained mind has made the scripture ineffectual.

Can you explain what part of Genesis 3:15 mentions the gospel? And no, Christianity is based on the New Testament. It is based on the teachings of Christ. Christ teaches nothing until the New Testament. Hence the word "Christ" in the word "Christianity". Some but by no means the majority of Christ's teaching have backup or background in the Old Testament.

[AC]

Originally Posted by Burninator

Along the lines of what Anthony Cool said...

[Calgaryborn]

Originally Posted by PYroMaNiaC

Can you explain what part of Genesis 3:15 mentions the gospel? And no, Christianity is based on the New Testament. It is based on the teachings of Christ. Christ teaches nothing until the New Testament. Hence the word "Christ" in the word "Christianity". Some but by no means the majority of Christ's teaching have backup or background in the Old Testament.

Do a google search for "proto evangelium". The word means "first gospel".

Isaiah 53 talks much about Christ's mission on earth. Daniel says when he was to come. Jesus fullfill over 300 hundred prophesies during his ministry.

Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
32Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

That sounds like a pretty complete gospel coming out of the old Testament.

[Skyceman]

Originally Posted by AnthonyCook

I think the fact that it doesn't make sense in conjunction with the hypocrisy and the contradictions upon contradictions is what's scary.

Well that's a shocker. Any organization with people in it is bound to have hypocrisies. Co-workers, government officials, and church's can all be found to have people with ill motives and bad character.

Tell me, if I were playing "Stairway to Heaven" on the guitar way out of tune, would you blame Led Zeppelin for how terrible it sounds or me?

[photon]

What if it was written out of tune?

[Skyceman]

Originally Posted by photon

What if it was written out of tune?

Well if it were, I'm pretty sure it wouldn't of ever been considered as "the Greatest Song of All Time".

[PYroMaNiaC]

Originally Posted by Calgaryborn

Do a google search for "proto evangelium". The word means "first gospel".

Isaiah 53 talks much about Christ's mission on earth. Daniel says when he was to come. Jesus fullfill over 300 hundred prophesies during his ministry.

Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
32Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

That sounds like a pretty complete gospel coming out of the old Testament.

Lets go back. I stated originally that the Bible makes no sense. That still holds true whether you use the "proto evangelium" or the Gospel according to Mathew, Mark , Luke and John. The fact remains that God contradicts himself in the Bible.

Let's look at your earliest mention of the Gospel, for example. If God already has the answer to humanity's problem in his son, why take so long? If he already knows what his son is going to teach, why not teach it himself? Why put forth two differnt sets of rules? Makes no sense.

Also, these references that you make to the earliest Gospel do not refer to Christ. They tell us what is coming. They are predictions that will be fullfilled when Christ arrives. If God is all knowing, then the predictions should be pretty accurate, you'd think. I stand by my statement that Christianity is based on the New Testament. The fact that the New Testament was predicted shouldn't come as a surprise.

[Flame On]

Wow has this thread ever changed since I last dropped in. Where'd all this religous banter stem from?