[Trade] Meier to NJ blockbuster (too many pieces to fit in a thread title)

[dustygoon]

San Jose calling it a conditional 1st when it's actually a 2nd that could turn into a first. Glass half full!!

Grier got pick-pocketed.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by OILFAN #81

Meier was SJ's best forward. Devils win the trade IMO. Meier is a RFA and I'm surprised it wasn't more. I live in San Jose and the fans have tuned out.

California has always had a lot of fair-weather fans but it's sad to see that arena so empty. Doug Wilson really ran things into the ground as that team isn't going to be good again for some time.

[Poe969]

If they make some trades, and actually capitalize on them, it won't be too bad. Especially if they get bedard. They need to get rid of Karlsson and get a haul at the same time.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

California has always had a lot of fair-weather fans but it's sad to see that arena so empty. Doug Wilson really ran things into the ground as that team isn't going to be good again for some time.

They ran well for a long time though, on the strength of being a nice place where vets liked to sign long term. They got a lot of miles out of Thornton and Marleau. Just no cups.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

They ran well for a long time though, on the strength of being a nice place where vets liked to sign long term. They got a lot of miles out of Thornton and Marleau. Just no cups.

Yeah it was a good run and they simply got a little too greedy at the end taking on all those long term deals for players that were on the back half of their career. Also it's hard to say if Grier is the right guy to rebuild the team.

[Sylvanfan]

To me the Sharks are a cautionary tale that the Flames need to look at. The Sharks had a pretty good run of being an elite team. The playoff success never quite matched the regular season, but they were a second round team pretty consistently.

But the core got old and they had too many pricey long term contracts which has hamstrung the team. Now it's 4 straight years out of the playoffs and 3 more of cleanup to flush out enough of these to get the financial flexibility to get a new one in place. So it could be a 8-9 year project when it's done.

The Flames very much are trending to be like a lower tier version of the Sharks but with far less on ice results.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Yeah it was a good run and they simply got a little too greedy at the end taking on all those long term deals for players that were on the back half of their career. Also it's hard to say if Grier is the right guy to rebuild the team.

Yes, they were stupid on Karlsson, the Vlasic deal was not good, and now they're paying Hertl and Couture for a while. But it seems they've now recognized the tank. I suspect they will do a pretty long one - 5 years.

[dustygoon]

Originally Posted by Sylvanfan

To me the Sharks are a cautionary tale that the Flames need to look at. The Sharks had a pretty good run of being an elite team. The playoff success never quite matched the regular season, but they were a second round team pretty consistently.

But the core got old and they had too many pricey long term contracts which has hamstrung the team. Now it's 4 straight years out of the playoffs and 3 more of cleanup to flush out enough of these to get the financial flexibility to get a new one in place. So it could be a 8-9 year project when it's done.

The Flames very much are trending to be like a lower tier version of the Sharks but with far less on ice results.

I know what you are saying but i disagree. I think you want your team to be just like the Sharks. They weren't just trying to squeak in and hoping for the anything-can-happen scenario. Sharks were legitimately a threat in the playoffs for years. It just didn't work out as you said.

Star studded line up and drafting Couture, Coyle, Hertl, Josh Norris, and Meyer as they rolled. Getting over their skis on contracts was the end.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by dustygoon

I know what you are saying but i disagree. I think you want your team to be just like the Sharks. They weren't just trying to squeak in and hoping for the anything-can-happen scenario. Sharks were legitimately a threat in the playoffs for years. It just didn't work out as you said.

Star studded line up and drafting Couture, Coyle, Hertl, Josh Norris, and Meyer as they rolled. Getting over their skis on contracts was the end.

Yeah, you can't look at the lack of a cup as a sure sign of failure. Only 3-4 teams won the cup while SJ was in peak form from, say 11-17, and they were just as star studded, if not more.

[Sylvanfan]

Originally Posted by dustygoon

I know what you are saying but i disagree. I think you want your team to be just like the Sharks. They weren't just trying to squeak in and hoping for the anything-can-happen scenario. Sharks were legitimately a threat in the playoffs for years. It just didn't work out as you said.

Star studded line up and drafting Couture, Coyle, Hertl, Josh Norris, and Meyer as they rolled. Getting over their skis on contracts was the end.

That is 100% what I'm not getting at.

The Sharks were a well run team for a lot of years. But make no mistake it started with a core of Marleau, Thornton, and Nabokov after they stole Jumbo Joe. Than as you say they supplemented it extremely well for 15 years thru drafting a trades.

But as Marleau and Thornton expired the next wave was not the same calibre of player. So while Hertl, Couture, and Meier are all good players. They're not the same and than they added Karlsson at the expense of Pavelski and not it's pretty ugly there. They doubled down on core of lesser talent with a couple of tough contracts already in place for Burns and Vlassic.

The current Flames talent wise don't have a Marleau, Thornton, Pavelski level core. They're into Huberdeau and Kadri for s lot of money for a lot of term on the back half of their career. If they double down on Anderson, Lindholm, Hanifan and keep other pricey vets too. I think things will be much the same. So they might want to start fixing things now or they could become a 12 year fix too...and without any on ice results leading into it.

You can even look at New Jersey who are finally crawling out of the darkness. After a last hurrah cup run in 2012...they were 9 of 10 years out of the playoffs until showing promise this year. Those post lockout Devils teams were a lot of good but pricey veteran laden teams and they had a lot of cleanup after that.

[dustygoon]

Originally Posted by Sylvanfan

That is 100% what I'm not getting at.

The Sharks were a well run team for a lot of years. But make no mistake it started with a core of Marleau, Thornton, and Nabokov after they stole Jumbo Joe. Than as you say they supplemented it extremely well for 15 years thru drafting a trades.

But as Marleau and Thornton expired the next wave was not the same calibre of player. So while Hertl, Couture, and Meier are all good players. They're not the same and than they added Karlsson at the expense of Pavelski and not it's pretty ugly there. They doubled down on core of lesser talent with a couple of tough contracts already in place for Burns and Vlassic.

The current Flames talent wise don't have a Marleau, Thornton, Pavelski level core. They're into Huberdeau and Kadri for s lot of money for a lot of term on the back half of their career. If they double down on Anderson, Lindholm, Hanifan and keep other pricey vets too. I think things will be much the same. So they might want to start fixing things now or they could become a 12 year fix too...and without any on ice results leading into it.

You can even look at New Jersey who are finally crawling out of the darkness. After a last hurrah cup run in 2012...they were 9 of 10 years out of the playoffs until showing promise this year. Those post lockout Devils teams were a lot of good but pricey veteran laden teams and they had a lot of cleanup after that.

I see what you are saying. I don't disagree. Flames aren't close to the sharks. We don't have the core to start down that path.

The sharks are the goal (except the part where they went full Scarface on contracts). Find elite talent and keep adding good prospects as you go.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by dustygoon

I see what you are saying. I don't disagree. Flames aren't close to the sharks. We don't have the core to start down that path.

The sharks are the goal (except the part where they went full Scarface on contracts). Find elite talent and keep adding good prospects as you go.

Sharks had the misfortune to be good when the Pens, Hawks and Kings were better. Especially in goal. They had Nabolov on the way up and Niemi after. But Kings had Quick, Pens had MAF and a surprising year from Murray and the Hawks caught Niemi's and Crawford's best years.

[CSharp]

Originally Posted by Canada 02

they should have signed Gaudreau instead; likely similar cap hit without losing assets

Timo Meier is a power forward. Gritty but skilled. Really wished the Flames had a player like him. Good that he's out east with the Devils.

[dustygoon]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Sharks had the misfortune to be good when the Pens, Hawks and Kings were better. Especially in goal. They had Nabolov on the way up and Niemi after. But Kings had Quick, Pens had MAF and a surprising year from Murray and the Hawks caught Niemi's and Crawford's best years.

That is exactly the key reason....you position your roster as a "win the first two rounds and be a semifinalist" quality team and hope you get hot goaltending to go the rest of the way. Sharks never really had that last part.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by dustygoon

That is exactly the key reason....you position your roster as a "win the first two rounds and be a semifinalist" quality team and hope you get hot goaltending to go the rest of the way. Sharks never really had that last part.

And barring a Vasilevsky, who seems to be an anomoly, goalies are more likely than other positions to have incredible variation in their years.