Tom Wilson KOs Oleksiak - UPD: Oleksiak is dealing with a concussion.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by transplant99

By who?

Everyone.
I don't blame the past eras of hockey - as we didn't know about brain injuries. Now we do. And fighting is allowed to continue.


The purpose of a fight is to hit someone in the face and head. How can that be a part of a game with what we know now?



It is shameful.

[Beninho]

Originally Posted by Hot_Flatus

This really seems like more of a personal bias you have against a player than anything else. This kind of fight is not uncommon or at all questioned as scummy on most occasions.

Go watch the video of other fights this season and find a fight that was started the way Wilson did. You haven’t made any points to why what Wilson did was proper way to challenge someone to a fight. I’m not the only one pissed off about it so it isn’t a personal bias, Crosby was pretty ticked off by the play. Please go look at the vid I posted and find other fights that started with a guy rushing in and blindsiding a guy with a fight

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by Hot_Flatus

Yeah for instigating in the final 5 minutes of a game, not for the actual act of fighting......I'm really not sure how anyone can turn the tables on players for fighting when it is literally part of the rules.

That’s 1 game. They gave him an extra because it was scummy.

[Hot_Flatus]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

That's exactly what some of us are doing.
Fighting is unnecessary, and shouldn't be part of the game knowing what we do about brain injuries
That fact that it is still a part of the game will be something looked back upon with a great deal of shame.

Jiri, it's a tad over dramatic to claim how shameful fighting in hockey will be looked upon when society actively celebrate sports like UFC, Boxing, Football, Rugby, AFL etc that result in countless brain injuries per event/game. Hockey is not alone in this and is most definitely in a better spot than all of the above with the way they are progressing on rules, punishment the last few seasons. Do you consider all of the above shameful?

This isn't what the discussion is about in this thread. Right or wrong, this incident is no different than a large majority of fights in the league. You don't see people calling Lomberg 'scummy' for doing basically the exact same thing a few games ago. Until the rules are changed, calling this fight out is nothing more than cherry picking because Wilson has a bad rap.

[Hot_Flatus]

Originally Posted by Beninho

Go watch the video of other fights this season and find a fight that was started the way Wilson did. You haven’t made any points to why what Wilson did was proper way to challenge someone to a fight. I’m not the only one pissed off about it so it isn’t a personal bias, Crosby was pretty ticked off by the play. Please go look at the vid I posted and find other fights that started with a guy rushing in and blindsiding a guy with a fight

This happens all the time. Right or wrong it is not uncommon. You're not watching much hockey if you legitimately are shocked at seeing this.

[ForeverFlameFan]

Are we even talking about this if Wilson doesn’t KO Oleksiak?

I think Wilson is a POS but I saw nothing wrong with this.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Everyone.
I don't blame the past eras of hockey - as we didn't know about brain injuries. Now we do. And fighting is allowed to continue.


The purpose of a fight is to hit someone in the face and head. How can that be a part of a game with what we know now?



It is shameful.

Then, by extension and logical conclusion, body checking must be removed as well.

Way, WAY more head injuries occur with body contact than by straight fist fights in the NHL, so we will have to be ashamed of that as well....right? I mean if that is what this crusade is all about, and its the largest contributor, it makes way more sense to disallow it over a significantly smaller part of the problem.

Fighting has been around since the game started the best i can tell, and even with the understanding that some fights can occur that could lead to head trauma, people still engage in it by choice 99% of the time.

I will be the first to agree the game became almost secondary to the chaos that line brawls and such that occurred for a couple decades. It had no room in the sport nor was it ever meant to be like that from the beginning.

But to fundamentally change a part of the game that has existed for the entirety of its history because it offends a very small minority, is ridiculous. There are very easy ways to avoid seeing fighting in the NHL if you so choose.

Let the rest of the consumers enjoy what was a part of the draw to the sport to begin with.

[Beninho]

Originally Posted by Hot_Flatus

This happens all the time. Right or wrong it is not uncommon. You're not watching much hockey if you legitimately are shocked at seeing this.

Lol, you’ve yet to really explain your point but ok

[81MC]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Everyone.
I don't blame the past eras of hockey - as we didn't know about brain injuries. Now we do. And fighting is allowed to continue.


The purpose of a fight is to hit someone in the face and head. How can that be a part of a game with what we know now?



It is shameful.

Anyone who has seen men competing at anything should be well aware that things will boil over sometimes. It isn’t exactly shocking that strong grown men will eventually have at it. Take it for what you will, but I don’t feel shame when two grown men decide to square off.
Which, isn’t what happened here unfortunately.

[troutman]

Originally Posted by Hot_Flatus

Jiri, it's a tad over dramatic to claim how shameful fighting in hockey will be looked upon when society actively celebrate sports like UFC, Boxing, Football, Rugby, AFL etc that result in countless brain injuries per event/game. Hockey is not alone in this and is most definitely in a better spot than all of the above with the way they are progressing on rules, punishment the last few seasons. Do you consider all of the above shameful?

Yes. I don't watch boxing or UFC anymore. It's brutal. Litigation may shut it all down in our lifetimes.

[full disclosure - my Father has terrible dementia, and I'm afraid he had too many concussions playing football in university]

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Hot_Flatus

Jiri, it's a tad over dramatic to claim how shameful fighting in hockey will be looked upon when society actively celebrate sports like UFC, Boxing, Football, Rugby, AFL etc that result in countless brain injuries per event/game. Hockey is not alone in this and is most definitely in a better spot than all of the above with the way they are progressing on rules, punishment the last few seasons. Do you consider all of the above shameful?

This isn't what the discussion is about in this thread. Right or wrong, this incident is no different than a large majority of fights in the league. You don't see people calling Lomberg 'scummy' for doing basically the exact same thing a few games ago. Until the rules are changed, calling this fight out is nothing more than cherry picking because Wilson has a bad rap.

Yes I think boxing and UFC will be looked back with shame. And I think Football is at a real important moment where it needs to figure out if it can evolve as a game to manage head injuries.

There are lots of articles out there about the jeopardy the sport is in long-term. Here is just one:

https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/46885...injury-expert/


As for the rest - thanks for letting us know what the thread is about. I think it is a relevant discussion point as it is just another example of why fighting should be eliminated. Let me know if I should PM you in the future to get your approval about whether something is on topic or not.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by 81MC

Anyone who has seen men competing at anything should be well aware that things will boil over sometimes. It isn’t exactly shocking that strong grown men will eventually have at it. Take it for what you will, but I don’t feel shame when two grown men decide to square off.
Which, isn’t what happened here unfortunately.

Hockey is the only non-combat sport in which squaring off and fighting are still tolerated to some degree. This notion that grown men are incapable of controlling their emotions and tempers on the ice is a cop out.

[Beninho]

Originally Posted by troutman

Yes. I don't watch boxing or UFC anymore. It's brutal. Litigation may shut it all down in our lifetimes.

Mixed martial arts is a beautiful sport and won’t be going anywhere anytime soon. Watching guys show their craft that they’ve been perfecting over a lifetime is awesome to watch. Yes it’s violent and not for everyone but it’s very much a sport with high level athletes that fight with pride and honour. My issue is not with the “brutality” of fighting it’s the lack of honour by Wilson which he showed time and time again. He could’ve squared off properly but choose to pick a time when the guy was trying to get back into position on a nothing play.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Then, by extension and logical conclusion, body checking must be removed as well.

Way, WAY more head injuries occur with body contact than by straight fist fights in the NHL, so we will have to be ashamed of that as well....right? I mean if that is what this crusade is all about, and its the largest contributor, it makes way more sense to disallow it over a significantly smaller part of the problem.

Fighting has been around since the game started the best i can tell, and even with the understanding that some fights can occur that could lead to head trauma, people still engage in it by choice 99% of the time.

I will be the first to agree the game became almost secondary to the chaos that line brawls and such that occurred for a couple decades. It had no room in the sport nor was it ever meant to be like that from the beginning.

But to fundamentally change a part of the game that has existed for the entirety of its history because it offends a very small minority, is ridiculous. There are very easy ways to avoid seeing fighting in the NHL if you so choose.

Let the rest of the consumers enjoy what was a part of the draw to the sport to begin with.

I've strongly advocated that indeed body checking does need to change in a pretty meaningful way. Checking should be about taking the puck back - anything more should be a penalty. That's my view and I recognize others don't share it.

As for the rest - it isn't about it offending me. It isn't about me not watching it. It is about the long-term impacts of head trauma and what is a very easy step that should be taken to eliminate some of that - by getting rid of fighting.

It serves no purpose in the game. It is there purely due to antiquated views of it being important wrapped in some sillly nonsense called "the code".

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Yes I think boxing and UFC will be looked back with shame. And I think Football is at a real important moment where it needs to figure out if it can evolve as a game to manage head injuries.

There are lots of articles out there about the jeopardy the sport is in long-term. Here is just one:

https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/46885...injury-expert/...

That article is about the other kind of football:

Dr Omalu also claimes football lags behind other sectors of society when its comes to its knowledge of brain injuries - warning this may lead to its downfall.

"We need to make soccer compatible with 21st century knowledge. The soccer industry should embrace the future and stop living in the past.

"If they fail to do that, soccer will not be as successful as it is.

"We need to be progressive, we need to be intelligent. We cannot continue to play soccer the way we played it in 1970."

[Matty81]

I don't think it's a minority who are put off by fighting either (I wouldn't say offended either)... definitely within the hockey fan community it is not the norm but outside of that group I've got young kids and work in a pretty diverse workplace and its crazy these days how many people are put off letting their kids play or watching hockey themselves due to a combination of the sanctioned violence that doesn't fly in normal society causing hits to the head and also the cost. Maybe because I grew up in a small town but it feels like the % of ppl out of the whole who are really into hockey has gone down.

Granted its still really popular but with all the competition for people's attention and the immigration rates into Canada, they've got to be smart if they want to stay relevant long term and not become a sport just older european background Canadians are into. I think they are effectively removing fighting without offending the older fans by getting rid of all the physical play and it'll get to the point where it is the exception rather than the norm. Still some guys who fight but the model is trending towards faster smaller players with skill.

[woob]

Originally Posted by transplant99

But to fundamentally change a part of the game that has existed for the entirety of its history because it offends a very small minority, is ridiculous. There are very easy ways to avoid seeing fighting in the NHL if you so choose.

Let the rest of the consumers enjoy what was a part of the draw to the sport to begin with.

Yeah, that's a weak argument. A game shouldn't evolve because some aspect of it has been around for ages? Yeah, no. Helmets became a thing because of player safety. Body protection became a thing because of player safety. No fighting will become a thing because of player safety. And yes, we may even see certain body checks eliminated due to player safety. I am far more in support of that line of evolution in the game rather than "but they've been fighting since forever!"

But I agree with Cali- The referee/DPOS aspect needs to improve as well before we're able to successfully manage fighting and certain types of checks.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

That article is about the other kind of football:

Oops you are right. Though still interesting.

https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/...206-story.html

[woob]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

It serves no purpose in the game. It is there purely due to antiquated views of it being important wrapped in some sillly nonsense called "the code".

That's what I don't like. So something happens one game and then we have this whole "oh we need to put so and so in the line up to go ring his bell!" Ok, so we're going to take out a likely more talented player so that we can put some guy on the ice to play 3-4 minutes just to uphold "the code" and "send a message?" How about we send the message like we did for that Oilers game; by making their baboons looks ridiculous and beating them where it means something, on the scoresheet.

[Zarley]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

That's exactly what some of us are doing.
Fighting is unnecessary, and shouldn't be part of the game knowing what we do about brain injuries
That fact that it is still a part of the game will be something looked back upon with a great deal of shame.

Fighting and hitting are fundamental parts of hockey. It's unfortunate that yourself and a sizable minority of fans and media members (most of whom have never played the game at a high level) are pushing this holier-than-thou narrative at every opportunity.

Players who fight choose to do so knowing full well the potential consequences. I recognize that there have been advances in science related to brain injuries but it's obviously not groundbreaking news that being punched in the head can be hazardous to one's health. You'd be foolish to argue that players are not compensated appropriately for the risk they bear in choosing to fight.

So what is your issue with willing participants - who know the risks and are compensated for them - choosing to fight, especially considering that a majority of fans and the vast majority of players support it being a part of the game?