Calgary Cops caught using excessive force? - Page 6 - Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

FlamesAddiction · 07-10-2016, 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zulu29

So let me get this straight, police should not use force on someone who is resisting arrest because doing so is human nature? No, the police job is to get that person under arrest with as much force as necessary to do so. You can go to court or your lawyer and explain your instincts there.

He didn't look like he was resisting arrest at all. The eyewitness said they told him to get inside his car and he stopped for some reason, then they beat him. Was he even arrested at all for that matter?

Jiggy · 07-10-2016, 10:59 AM

This was a 60 year old man weighing around 150 pounds. And people think punching him in the head was the right thing to do to detain him? I bet if those same people were in his shoes, they would not enjoy getting punched in the head.

btimbit · 07-10-2016, 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by calgaryblood

Why are you speaking in hypotheticals when there is a video that clearly shows this man isn't strong and wasn't resisting arrest? The cop threw him to the ground like a rag doll. So he might be strong when it comes to someone his size/weight but a middle aged man who is barely 5'6 doesn't have some sort of super human strength that can fight off 3 men who look to be at least 250 pounds each.

I'm not. Like you said, the video is right there, and clearly they struggle to control him.

calgaryblood · 07-10-2016, 11:02 AM

Can we drop the resisting arrest argument? If he was resisting arrest he would have been charged. Nothing in that video shows he was resisting arrest so I'd like to see where people got he was resisting arrest from.

calgaryblood · 07-10-2016, 11:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by btimbit

I'm not. Like you said, the video is right there, and clearly they struggle to control him.

Well you keep saying "humans are strong creatures" when this man obviously wasn't one of these strong creatures. How do they clearly struggle to control him? He gets thrown to the ground and immediately gets punched in the face and then three cops are on him in less than 3 seconds. They clearly had the situation under control within seconds. How can he even have the chance to put his hands behind his back while a much bigger man is on top of him?

CorsiHockeyLeague · 07-10-2016, 11:05 AM

As someone who worked door for a few years, yeah, small dudes can be just as difficult to control if they don't want to be. Hell, girls are. A 100 pound weight advantage is not some magic ticket to being able to control someone if they don't want to be.

Quote:

Originally Posted by calgaryblood

Can we drop the resisting arrest argument? If he was resisting arrest he would have been charged.

This is wrong. They've alleged he was resisting arrest, so it's a live issue as to whether he was. If you're saying he wasn't, you're also saying CPS is lying. Maybe so. But people are often not charged for offences like this; the fact that he wasn't charged means nothing.

Zulu29 · 07-10-2016, 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

Might be smart, but no, you are not "legally obligated to cooperate".

That's not entirely true. The case law you referred to where The defendant was found not guilty as the judge found the police did not articulate their reason for arrest. The arrest was justified, just not articulated to the defendant.

So yes, if a police officer grabs guy and says come with me with no explanation as to why. Then yes, you may resisit that arrest of your personal freedom as no explanation was given. However, in the situation I outlined where a cop has reasonable grounds to arrest someone and advises the person of that. Then no, you are not permitted to resisit and if you do so you, you will face the consequences.

GirlySports · 07-10-2016, 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiggy

This was a 60 year old man weighing around 150 pounds. And people think punching him in the head was the right thing to do to detain him? I bet if those same people were in his shoes, they would not enjoy getting punched in the head.

Those people would not disobeying orders either. If you're pinned down, just surrender.

CorsiHockeyLeague · 07-10-2016, 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zulu29

That's not entirely true. The case law you referred to where The defendant was found not guilty as the judge found the police did not articulate their reason for arrest. The arrest was justified, just not articulated to the defendant.

This is wrong. Read the case again.

To be clear, an officer who is executing an arrest that is unlawful is not acting in the course of his duty and therefore the criminal code provision for "resisting arrest" doesn't apply. This is what the Courts have said.

calgaryblood · 07-10-2016, 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

This is wrong. They've alleged he was resisting arrest, so it's a live issue as to whether he was. If you're saying he wasn't, you're also saying CPS is lying. Maybe so. But people are often not charged for offences like this; the fact that he wasn't charged means nothing.

There was only one incident where he could have resisted arrest and it was all on video. Also multiple eye witnesses have stated he wasn't resisting arrest. We don't need to look into some imaginary world to know he wasn't resisting arrest. And of course the police's views on him resisting arrest will differ when a video surfaces of one of their own punching someone in the head.

btimbit · 07-10-2016, 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by calgaryblood

Well you keep saying "humans are strong creatures" when this man obviously wasn't one of these strong creatures. How do they clearly struggle to control him? He gets thrown to the ground and immediately gets punched in the face and then three cops are on him in less than 3 seconds. They clearly had the situation under control within seconds.

Not a single part of that video looks like the situation is under control

calgaryblood · 07-10-2016, 11:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by btimbit

Not a single part of that video looks like the situation is under control

Having three guys on top of a 150 pound 60 year old man isn't having the situation under control? It's the cop who made the situation out of control in the first place.

There was absolutely no need to throw him to the ground.

Cecil Terwilliger · 07-10-2016, 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by btimbit

Not a single part of that video looks like the situation is under control

What?

So what exactly that you saw made it look like that guy was a threat?

Jiggy · 07-10-2016, 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GirlySports

Those people would not disobeying orders either. If you're pinned down, just surrender.

After being pinned down, how did he not surrender? He moved his hands in front of his face to protect himself. Even though having to surrender over a traffic violation is a bit much. This was not some drunk idiot starting a fight.

Johnny199r · 07-10-2016, 11:16 AM

The problem I have with these incidents is that ASIRT, the body who investigates these use of force incidents, are always run by former prosecutors who are incredibly police friendly and have been through out their entire careers.

A non prosecutor should be in charge. I question the independence.

Jiggy · 07-10-2016, 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by btimbit

Not a single part of that video looks like the situation is under control

You're correct, the officers made this situation out of control.

FlamesAddiction · 07-10-2016, 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiggy

After being pinned down, how did he not surrender? He moved his hands in front of his face to protect himself. Even though having to surrender over a traffic violation is a bit much. This was not some drunk idiot starting a fight.

Every time they punched him in the head, his legs twitched. That shows he was resisting (apparently).

calgaryblood · 07-10-2016, 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GirlySports

Those people would not disobeying orders either. If you're pinned down, just surrender.

It's easy for us to say that but when someone is kneeing you in the face and body and punching you in the face the natural instinct is to cover up those areas.

I'd like someone to explain how he even had the chance to surrender. There was no "get your hands behind your back", he was thrown to the ground and punched and kneed immediately.

Zulu29 · 07-10-2016, 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

This is wrong. Read the case again.

To be clear, an officer who is executing an arrest that is unlawful is not acting in the course of his duty and therefore the criminal code provision for "resisting arrest" doesn't apply. This is what the Courts have said.

Yeah, if the officer knowingly conducts a false arrest sure. I'll stress this again, if an officer is able to articulate reasonable grounds and finds committing an arrestable offence then they are legally permitted and in some instances obligated to arrest. What a judge determined after the fact is up to him/her.

MrMastodonFarm · 07-10-2016, 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by btimbit

And someone that is 150 pounds and 60 is still strong. How many parents here have trouble holding onto a child that's having a temper tantrum? Now imagine that with a full grown man.

Nothing about this situation is easy.

That's why I always punch a toddler square in the mouth to settle them down