I think Ovechkin should get the Hart, do you?

[Jets4Life]

I would personally vote for Carey Price.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by EldrickOnIce

Probably true.
But it's also worth mentioning that those 5 other players you mention have combined 13 Stanley cups as players, which counts for something.

Regarding Ovechkin this year, he leads any other scorer by 10 goals. That's 20% more than anyone else. That's significant.

Yes and on 960 it was also mentioned that those 5 players as well as Lafleur were surrounded by fellow HOF players. Even Crosby has had almost an equal in Malkin as well as an assortment of guys like Iginla, Hossa, Neil, etc. Who has Ovechkin had? Backstrom and who's been his goaltenders? Lets face it that Caps team had a nice thing going years back when Green was lighting things up but Ovechkin has never had near the talent those guys or even Crosby has had to work with. He's always been the one player that teams can focus on to shut down and despite that he continues to score at a pace that will put him likely top 5 goal scoring all time despite a full season lost to a strike and a half season lost from a lockout.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Lets face it. If AO was a Canadian born player he would be worshipped in this country. Since he's Russian many fans try to discredit him as some one dimensional guy that only cares about scoring while convieniently forgetting that Lemieux, Gretzky, Hull, Bossy etc were never once confused for Selke candidates. As far as scoring goes he's having a more impactful HOF career than Crosby.

That's the thing with Ovi - you have to qualify the praise down to 'as far as scoring goals'.

Crosby has a Stanley Cup and 2 Olympic golds.

You don't have to qualify that

[Huntingwhale]

Originally Posted by EldrickOnIce

In historical perspective, yes.

That's true I guess. Just goes to show how low scoring was both seasons, but also how amazing OV's 50 goals are this season. However 30 years from now we're going to tell your kids about the legend that is Iggy (or OV) and you'll be pointing at their trophy cases with the trophies in them. I know I'll look back and reflect on how lucky I was to bear witness to a player who scored 50 goals 6+ times.

It would be something if OV could break or at least tie Gretzky's record. A long shot for sure, but I'm excited as a hockey fan to think that one of Gretzky's record long considered unbreakable has a chance to be broken!

[Weitz]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

That's the thing with Ovi - you have to qualify the praise down to 'as far as scoring goals'.

Crosby has a Stanley Cup and 2 Olympic golds.

You don't have to qualify that

Why oh why do people compare individual accomplishments to things crosbys TEAMS have done?

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by Weitz

Why oh why do people compare individual accomplishments to things crosbys TEAMS have done?

Because team sports are about winning championships not individual stats

[Weitz]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

Because team sports are about winning championships not individual stats

Awesome. We're not talking about championships.

[RyZ]

Originally Posted by Weitz

Really? Because the stats say differently.

I guess it depends which stats one looks at. The following article paints the picture that, at 5 on 5, Ovechkin doesn't contribute very much positively to his team over the course of his career so far and this year is no different.

http://www.thestar.com/sports/hockey...ns-no-mvp.html

This part in particular.....

"When we look at goal metrics, it turns out that when Ovechkin is on the ice in 5-on-5 play, the Capitals’ goal differential this season is 0.8 per cent lower than when he isn’t on the ice (this is called Goals For % “Rel.”, as in “relative” to the rest of the team). In other words, 5-on-5 the Capitals do better when Ovechkin isn’t on the ice than when he is.
For some elite players it would be fair to dismiss such a result as an aberration. Over the relatively small sample of 70 games, it would be reasonable to conclude that the player was a victim of variance; that he’s just on the wrong side of puck luck.
For example, so far this season Patrice Bergeron, Anze Kopitar, and John Tavares all fall in the same negative territory as Ovechkin.
But as shown in the table, the difference is that these players have a long track record establishing their positive goal differentials, whereas Ovechkin has just the opposite. This year’s negative numbers aren’t an aberration for Ovechkin, they’re the norm. They’re most likely an accurate reflection of his true contribution to his team.
Contrary to what the analysts are saying, Ovechkin isn’t even break-even for the Caps, let alone the league’s MVP."

Although he is clearly one of the best pure scorers and PP specialists of all time, he has plenty of holes in his game and far more than most other superstar level players.

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by Weitz

Awesome. We're not talking about championships.

Clearly we are. It's part of any player comparison

[dino7c]

Habs are .500 without price in net and 20 some games above .500 with him in net

and we all know .500 in the NHL is nothing to write home about these days

[Weitz]

If you actually check statistic websites the numbers in that article are way off.

I stand by my statement that if Ovechkin is Canadian he is the running with price. But because he is not he won't be.

Personally I think Ovechkin should win simply because I feel goalies shouldn't however when price wins I'll be ok with it.

[doctajones428]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Who has Ovechkin had? Backstrom

What a difficult life he must have putting up 50 goals with a measly near career point per game play making center who has assists (13 primary) on 29 of his goals. Ovechkin only has 4 more points than Backstrom this season, they're both extremely valuable to their team this season.

Also your Russian comment, people could easily say if Price wasn't a Hab everyone would worship him in this country.

Ovechkin deserves consideration, but what Price is doing this season is remarkable. We've seen piles of 50 goal scorers

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Weitz

Why oh why do people compare individual accomplishments to things crosbys TEAMS have done?

Ovechkin's track record in the WJC and Olympics speaks for itself. And he has been unable to help his team have any real playoff success.

I guess some people think it's about stats. For me, it's about helping your team win. Like scoring a Golden Goal for instance.

[EldrickOnIce]

Originally Posted by Weitz

Why oh why do people compare individual accomplishments to things crosbys TEAMS have done?

Sounds about right, coming from an Oiler fan

[JiriHrdina]

The russian argument is dumb.
Hockey fans universally love Pavel Datsyuk. Why? Because he plays the game the right way.
Personally I dislike AO because I think he's a hotdog, goof and is lazy on D.

[CroFlames]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

That's the thing with Ovi - you have to qualify the praise down to 'as far as scoring goals'.

Crosby has a Stanley Cup and 2 Olympic golds.

You don't have to qualify that

Well you kinda do have to qualify that. Canada had unimaginably great teams in the Olympics. Perhaps the greatest hockey squads every assembled. Ovi beating Canada would be a stretch.

Is anyone going to argue Cristiano Ronaldo isn't that good because of Portugal's lack of major championships?

[CroFlames]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

The russian argument is dumb.
Hockey fans universally love Pavel Datsyuk. Why? Because he plays the game the right way.
Personally I dislike AO because I think he's a hotdog, goof and is lazy on D.

The Russian argument is not dumb. I've heard lots of Canadians brush of Russians becuase they are Russian. Datsyuk is an exception, but it doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by CroFlames

The Russian argument is not dumb. I've heard lots of Canadians brush of Russians becuase they are Russian. Datsyuk is an exception, but it doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

I'm sure some idiot hockey fans don't like players because of their nationality but I don't think it is common. More to the point - it drives me crazy when someone decides that because someone else holds a different opinion about a player it must be because something like "they hate russians".

There are valid reasons why not everyone thinks AO is the bee's knees.

I'm a big fan of russian players. Sergei Makarov is one of my all time favorites, along with other guys such as Sergei Fedorov and Alex Mogilny.

But AO is a goof and I don't like him.

Russian has ZERO to do with it.

[dammage79]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

The russian argument is dumb.
Hockey fans universally love Pavel Datsyuk. Why? Because he plays the game the right way.
Personally I dislike AO because I think he's a hotdog, goof and is lazy on D.

I would agree with this pre-trotz, but it would seem this year AO has found the other side of his game again. from an abysmal -35 last year to a shoulder shruggingly okay +11 this year on an almost identical producing year to boot.

Still has 5 games to to equal and better his goal totals from last season. AO's been a bright spot in a low scoring league this year.

[dammage79]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

I'm sure some idiot hockey fans don't like players because of their nationality but I don't think it is common. More to the point - it drives me crazy when someone decides that because someone else holds a different opinion about a player it must be because something like "they hate russians".

There are valid reasons why not everyone thinks AO is the bee's knees.

I'm a big fan of russian players. Sergei Makarov is one of my all time favorites, along with other guys such as Sergei Fedorov and Alex Mogilny.

But AO is a goof and I don't like him.

Russian has ZERO to do with it.

You keep dredging up the term goof. Why?