Russia invades Ukraine

[CaptainCrunch]

I would assume that the American's will deploy the C/D F-16's because of their ability to fire beyond visual range AIM-120's.


I love the Falcon, Its a great little light fighter that's designed to be a high speed dog fighter.



However I don't know how well it will do against Mondern Fighters. I mean the Russian Airforce has had poor performances so far. But the Ukrainian pilots are going to be inexperienced in the F-16's.


Where the F-16 might have trouble is with the slow speed maneuverability of fighters like the Mig 29, the SU-27 and SU-34s or 35 which are super maneuverable at low speeds and are built around their nose authority.


I mean I doubt that the Russians are going to risk their felons anymore and problems have popped up with that plane.



Its still going to be a while though before air help gets there.


I still think that the American's should have made a deal with NATO countries that are still flying Mig 29's etc with a plane replacement strategy.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by chemgear

I had this back in the day, played the heck out of it.

Still stands up as one of the most fun flight sim games ever, and yeah I played the crap out of it. Once you figured out that you should never drop your speed below 300 knots and when to cash in your energy, you would never lose.

[karl262]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

I would assume that the American's will deploy the C/D F-16's because of their ability to fire beyond visual range AIM-120's.


I love the Falcon, Its a great little light fighter that's designed to be a high speed dog fighter.



However I don't know how well it will do against Mondern Fighters. I mean the Russian Airforce has had poor performances so far. But the Ukrainian pilots are going to be inexperienced in the F-16's.


Where the F-16 might have trouble is with the slow speed maneuverability of fighters like the Mig 29, the SU-27 and SU-34s or 35 which are super maneuverable at low speeds and are built around their nose authority.


I mean I doubt that the Russians are going to risk their felons anymore and problems have popped up with that plane.



Its still going to be a while though before air help gets there.


I still think that the American's should have made a deal with NATO countries that are still flying Mig 29's etc with a plane replacement strategy.

I'd be shocked if any Russian fighters get close enough to an F-16 for the super maneuverability to be a factor. I think its nothing more than an airshow trick.

F-16s + US operated Global Hawks = air superiority for Ukraine.

[FlamesAddiction]

The Free Russia Legion and their leader are really interesting. It’s the kind of stuff I bet someone will make a film about one day. I hate to think of what happens if Russia or Wagner get their hands on him though. You would pretty much have to take your own life first in that situation.

I also kind of worry what happens if they are using NATO weaponry on Russian soil. You would have to think that could escalate things.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

The Free Russia Legion and their leader are really interesting. It’s the kind of stuff I bet someone will make a film about one day. I hate to think of what happens if Russia or Wagner get their hands on him though. You would pretty much have to take your own life first in that situation.

I also kind of worry what happens if they are using NATO weaponry on Russian soil. You would have to think that could escalate things.

Russia can't escalate ####, other than dropping The Bomb, which I'm not 100% sure are in working order based on the rest of the #### show that is the Russian military.

[Jacks]

Ya, those lines have already been crossed and Russia did squat. They are already doing everything they can in Ukraine (outside of nukes) and they know that if they attack anything NATO things will get a lot worse for them.

[opendoor]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

The Free Russia Legion and their leader are really interesting. It’s the kind of stuff I bet someone will make a film about one day. I hate to think of what happens if Russia or Wagner get their hands on him though. You would pretty much have to take your own life first in that situation.

I don't know, I think Ukraine would do well to limit the amount of attention those militias that are handling the border incursions are getting, as they're filled with some pretty unsavory characters. This is mostly about the Russian Volunteer Corps (which is apparently much more extreme than the Free Russia Legion), but it's not exactly endearing:

Far-right militias who stormed a Russian region bordering Ukraine this week used US-made tactical vehicles in the attack, raising questions over Kyiv’s support for the Ukraine-based Russian extremist groups.
...
The Russian Volunteer Corps, founded by Nikitin last summer to fight against his home country’s invading army, includes self-avowed neo-Nazis. Born in Moscow, Nikitin also uses the surname Kapustin and goes by the call sign White Rex. This is also the name of his white nationalist clothing brand, which is popular among western far-right extremists.

“Nikitin is a real self-promoter, an intelligent, educated man who seems to be primarily interested in his own power, image, and standing,” said Michael Colborne, a journalist at the open-source investigative group Bellingcat who leads its research on the global far-right.

Colborne identified another member of the Russian Volunteer Corps in photographs posted by the group during its Belgorod operation as Russian Aleksandr Skachkov, a rightwing extremist. Skachkov was arrested in Ukraine in 2020 during a raid on people selling translations of the manifesto of the gunman behind the 2019 mass shooting in Christchurch, New Zealand, according to Bellingcat.

https://www.ft.com/content/0b57c31b-...reType=nongift

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Jacks

Ya, those lines have already been crossed and Russia did squat. They are already doing everything they can in Ukraine (outside of nukes) and they know that if they attack anything NATO things will get a lot worse for them.

I think they are doing everything they can on the battlefield, but I think they could punish Ukrainian civilians even harder. We routinely see Russia punish civilians when something bad happens to them. If things go really wrong on the Russian side of the border, I wouldn't under estimate their ability to slaughter innocents on an even larger scale.

[burn_this_city]

This interview with John McCain from 2015 is making the rounds.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1661126393101680640

[Coach]

Originally Posted by burn_this_city

This interview with John McCain from 2015 is making the rounds.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1661126393101680640

After the 2020 Election I watched a bunch of McCain v Obama speeches and debates. Amazing that there used to be some civility. I'm sure it's ebbed and flowed throughout time, but goddamn, some respectful disagreeability certainly felt refreshing.

Obama speaking at his funeral has to be one of the all time best.

[CroFlames]

Originally Posted by burn_this_city

This interview with John McCain from 2015 is making the rounds.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1661126393101680640

McCain was such a good pilot he flew all the way to Naboo for this interview.

[Itse]

Originally Posted by opendoor

I don't know, I think Ukraine would do well to limit the amount of attention those militias that are handling the border incursions are getting, as they're filled with some pretty unsavory characters. This is mostly about the Russian Volunteer Corps (which is apparently much more extreme than the Free Russia Legion), but it's not exactly endearing:

I'm not sure how much Ukraine can do about that.

Russians openly fighting against Putin inside Russia is by far the most interesting development of the war since the liberation of Kherson over six months ago, so it's going to get a lot of coverage, and the propaganda and military significance are both potentially huge.

Putin has also played the "everyone who is against us is a nazi" card so often by now, that I'm not sure how much it matters at this point if he sometimes happens to be right. There's also just so little sympathy for Russians outside Russia, that I think most people when/if they hear that are going to go either "whatever" or "that serves them right".

In any case, it's pretty obviously not a coincidence this is happening now, when Ukraine is trying to find possible break points in the Russian lines for their counteroffensive. The intent is to try to force Russians to move some of their troops away from Ukraine to protect their rear end, so to speak, and from that angle this is pretty smart. Putin needs to look like he can respond quickly and with strength or he risks looking weak (potentially lethal), but trying to block the whole border from small attacks like this could suck up a lot of men needed elsewhere, plus his military already has logistic issues, and maybe you don't want to use the worst troops, because 1. being poorly trained they might easily embarrass themselves in combat against a likely very motivated guerrilla-type force (with possible NATO training) 2. maybe Putin doesn't trust all his troops enough to let them near Russian insurgents.

In any case, the optics of this are just terrible for Putin, even if the military scale is tiny.

[CroFlames]

Are there many Ukrainians in the borderlands of Russia? I guess it doesn't make sense to me that Russian nationals would be so inspired to rise up like this.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by CroFlames

Are there many Ukrainians in the borderlands of Russia? I guess it doesn't make sense to me that Russian nationals would be so inspired to rise up like this.

Why not? They want to reclaim their country from a madman. I think it's incredibly brave.

[CroFlames]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Why not? They want to reclaim their country from a madman. I think it's incredibly brave.

Agreed. I just have a hard time seeing anyone rise up in that country. It hasn't happened since like... 1917?

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by CroFlames

Are there many Ukrainians in the borderlands of Russia? I guess it doesn't make sense to me that Russian nationals would be so inspired to rise up like this.

At one time there used to be, but the Holodomor took care of that. The ethno-cultural realm of Ukrainians used to extend past Ukraine's borders through the Caucasus into Kazakhstan, but the Holodomor and forced relocation of Ukrainians pretty much successfully ethnically cleansed them from the area. It's the main reason why there are so many ethnic Russians in Eastern Ukraine to begin with. The Holodomor caused such a labour shortage, that the USSR settled in Russians to take over the lands. I think some Russians in the region have always had an uneasy feeling that that one day they would have to give back what was stolen, which is part of their aggressive nature in that region.

[opendoor]

Originally Posted by CroFlames

Are there many Ukrainians in the borderlands of Russia? I guess it doesn't make sense to me that Russian nationals would be so inspired to rise up like this.

I mean, it makes sense when you consider the motives of some of these groups. The Russian Volunteer Corps are basically a far-right militia that wants a Russia for ethnic Russians only:

In April, Kapustin posted a video urging white nationalists from the United States, Britain, Germany and other countries to fight Putin because Russia had turned into a police state. He spoke negatively about Zelensky because he is Jewish and promotes “the worst of liberal values,” but he said Putin is worse.

The group’s ideology focuses on preserving Russians “as an ethnic group” and argues that “Putin and his henchmen are destroying Russians as an ethnic group, replacing them with an artificial concept of a ‘political nation.’”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world...ine-saboteurs/

And their leaders' Telegram feeds are filled with posts advocating for a race war and reverence for Hitler.

[burn_this_city]

Russia has been the #1 exporter of Neo Nazis for a long time.

[opendoor]

Originally Posted by Itse

I'm not sure how much Ukraine can do about that.

I mean, they could not openly cooperate with the more extreme groups.

Yeah, I get that they want any support they can get, but I doubt this will play very well among the countries that are providing weapons to Ukraine. The US is already trying to distance itself from this as much as possible.

[Itse]

Originally Posted by CroFlames

Are there many Ukrainians in the borderlands of Russia? I guess it doesn't make sense to me that Russian nationals would be so inspired to rise up like this.

Some of the Free Russia guys are I think deserters from the Russian army (I think I've read some stories about that), so they could be from any part of Russia, and since most desertions happened (I think) at the early parts of the war, those guys most likely are not ethnic Russians and/or from some backwater far from Moscow. Because that's who they sent first.

Some are Russians who lived in Ukraine before the war and felt a need to defend their adopted homeland (there's for example an NYT article about that), and yes some are Russians who lived near the border and felt a need to stand up for Ukraine.

For those who don't know;

Free Russian Legion (also known as Freedom of Russia Legion, not sure which translation is more accurate) is part of the foreign legion command structure in Ukraine, and thus directly under Ukrainian control. They are (or were at least) an official part of the military command structure, and have already seen some probably serious action in at least Bakhmut. Although Ukrainians are suddenly "not confirming or denying" that they had anything to do with these guys showing up in Russia. The purpose of this group was originally to just fight against Russians in Ukraine. Operations in Russia are a later development.

The Russian Volunteer Corps are technically paramilitary, and aren't officially under Ukrainian control, although Ukrainian military intelligence has slipped out at one point that they are part of the foreign legion. Which the foreign legion denies (But being paramilitary, the amount of control is probably somewhat limited.) They have also seen some action in Ukraine, but taking the war to Russia has always been the primary goal of these guys, and they claim to be just a branch of an underground force inside Russia. (Which might have some truth to it. There's been quite a few "surprising" explosions inside Russia since the start of the war, and it's quite possible some of those are connected to these guys.)