Shots fired between North and South Korea

[drewboy12]

Its a scary thought non the less even if they do go into war alone. North Korea has a army 1million strong, and enough artillery on the boarder to devastate Seoul, within hours. It would be a war with lots of innocent bloodshed on both sides of the boarder. Its one war that scars me for the sake of the people who will die and lose loved ones. There is what like 30,000 American soldiers stationed in south korea right now? So many men and women, that would lose their lives, because of some power crazy dictator, who has been egging on a war to happen, and now that he is ill, (no pun intended), seems to want this war to happen no matter what.

Its a scary situation.

[drewboy12]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

I could actually see China annexing parts of North Korea themselves before the U.S. can get it. Even though China has been a moderate supporter of the North, you know that they must be getting a little annoyed that Kim Jong Il is possibly going to bring more American influence to peninsula... although, Kim was recently in China meeting with officials there... not to get into conspiracies.

The one thing that worries me is if Kim attacks Japan which he has threatened in the past.

I agree with the part about Japan. They have proven to have long range missiles, which are capable of hitting Japan.

[Hack&Lube]

Originally Posted by T@T

Just wondering, now that the north has pretty much said f... you to the south and basically said we'll annihilate you. what happens if the USA parks some carriers off the coast and fits the south with patriots to drop any missles the north might have? anyone think China would have the balls to step in for the north?

We all learned in 1991 that Patriots don't work.

China doesn't care too much about North Korea. It mainly uses NK as a bargaining chip against the west and the UN. It's not the 50s anymore. Communist nations do not have solidarity.

[Hack&Lube]

Originally Posted by drewboy12

Its a scary thought non the less even if they do go into war alone. North Korea has a army 1million strong, and enough artillery on the boarder to devastate Seoul, within hours. It would be a war with lots of innocent bloodshed on both sides of the boarder. Its one war that scars me for the sake of the people who will die and lose loved ones. There is what like 30,000 American soldiers stationed in south korea right now? So many men and women, that would lose their lives, because of some power crazy dictator, who has been egging on a war to happen, and now that he is ill, (no pun intended), seems to want this war to happen no matter what.

Its a scary situation.

If NK decided to attack, US air superiority could basically take out all threatening ground targets and emplacements. NK's military infrastructure is 20-30 years out of date, far behind even that of Iraq.

[Sluggo]

Originally Posted by drewboy12

Its a scary thought non the less even if they do go into war alone. North Korea has a army 1million strong, and enough artillery on the boarder to devastate Seoul, within hours. It would be a war with lots of innocent bloodshed on both sides of the boarder. Its one war that scars me for the sake of the people who will die and lose loved ones. There is what like 30,000 American soldiers stationed in south korea right now? So many men and women, that would lose their lives, because of some power crazy dictator, who has been egging on a war to happen, and now that he is ill, (no pun intended), seems to want this war to happen no matter what.

Its a scary situation.

Im scared about what the north would load onto those artillery shells. They have chemical, biological, and radioactive material to turn Seoul into a uninhabitable toxic wasteland that no military force could repel in time with conventional weapons.

If a engagement were to happen the North Korean civilian's would probably suffer the least since the US and the south wouldn't kill indescribably and in all honesty suffering is a part of their daily lives. What the civilians would have to fear the most is their own brainwashed military using them as a hostage or following the last demented order of their god/leader.

[Sluggo]

Originally Posted by Hack&Lube

If NK decided to attack, US air superiority could basically take out all threatening ground targets and emplacements. NK's military infrastructure is 20-30 years out of date, far behind even that of Iraq.

In all honesty the only way that Seoul could survive is a tactical nuclear strike; there is just too many artillery pieces aimed at the city. Its about as close you can get to mutual assured destruction using only conventional weapons.

[HOZ]

Originally Posted by Hack&Lube

If NK decided to attack, US air superiority could basically take out all threatening ground targets and emplacements. NK's military infrastructure is 20-30 years out of date, far behind even that of Iraq.

No, actually, the ROK airforce would do that. US forces are a deterrent...not the knockout punch. ROK is more than capable to take care of itself.

Everyone knows that the US troops are no longer needed to defeat the NK Army. They are they as a show of support...aka...attack them we will fight with them!!

ROK is more than capable of winning any war with NK. The human casualties likely to happen is far from acceptable. Millions on both sides. Economically, South Korea is unable to incorporate a basket case like NK into itself. Germany, the world's 2nd largest economy took a decade and a half to incorporate East Germany into itself!!!!! East Germany and NK are NOT alike!

[SeeBass]

Originally Posted by drewboy12

Its a scary thought non the less even if they do go into war alone. North Korea has a army 1million strong, and enough artillery on the boarder to devastate Seoul, within hours. It would be a war with lots of innocent bloodshed on both sides of the boarder. Its one war that scars me for the sake of the people who will die and lose loved ones. There is what like 30,000 American soldiers stationed in south korea right now? So many men and women, that would lose their lives, because of some power crazy dictator, who has been egging on a war to happen, and now that he is ill, (no pun intended), seems to want this war to happen no matter what.

Its a scary situation.

I am too lazy to look it up but I know that South Korea has the largest reserve army in the world and can be activated and in place within 24 hours (they do drills of this)

[Jackpot_Smooth]

I think US involvement will primarily be on a support level for the south. Unless US assets are affected. Firing on the North by the US only will only serve to draw them completely into war with the North (especially in the eyes of the North) which i don't think they want at all. This would force China to make an ultimate decision on which stance they want to take and i think they have no idea what that is right now.

[Ozy_Flame]

I highly, highly doubt war happens. It would take a serious diplomatic failure to lead to war, and the North will not risk the position of the "dear leader" once the Americans start flying their armadas to Pyongyang.

Besides, the North has been making idle threats for 50 years. They always bang the war drum, but never actually go into full-on battle.

[Azure]

Obviously US/SK should fire the first shots and try to take out as much artillery as they can before NK has a chance to reply.

[CaptainCrunch]

Until you neutralize China as an benefactor to North Korea, I don't think that you can really take the first shots in any conflict with North Korea.

From my understanding China has begun to reconsider their relationship with NK, and might want to work through the UN for a resolution to this issue.

But if South Korea and the United States kick things off, we might see a similar scenario to the Korean War, with the exception that China might get involved earlier with the intent to both protect North Korea and topple its government in place.

[SeeBass]

China's big fear aside from a Nuke is the millions on NK refugees flowing across their borders.

Nobody wants a refugge crisis.

Just last year the NK goverment told it's people where in the mountains is the best grass to eat as a solution to the hunger crisis.

When the wall comes down in this country and we know the absolute truth what has gone on here for years we as people of the free world will be ashamed we did nothing.

[Knut]

http://www.vbs.tv/watch/the-vice-gui...h-korea-1-of-3
http://www.vbs.tv/watch/the-vice-gui...h-korea-2-of-3
http://www.vbs.tv/watch/the-vice-gui...h-korea-3-of-3


A Good time to bring out this again.... Vice Magazine Film crew does a "tourist" visit to North Korea... very interesting. 3 parter that takes about an hour to watch

Very much worth the time.

[flamingreen]

Originally Posted by Hesla

http://www.vbs.tv/watch/the-vice-gui...h-korea-1-of-3
http://www.vbs.tv/watch/the-vice-gui...h-korea-2-of-3
http://www.vbs.tv/watch/the-vice-gui...h-korea-3-of-3


A Good time to bring out this again.... Vice Magazine Film crew does a "tourist" visit to North Korea... very interesting. 3 parter that takes about an hour to watch

Very much worth the time.

Even better is their Vice Guide to Film of North Korea, shows what they really wanted to do when they visited there. Reinforces the point that North Korea is all about the spectacle and that is it.

[Nehkara]

I think North Korea would be a scary opponent in a war. I think air superiority would be harder than predicted by some. North Korea has 11,000 anti-air weapons and, while unlikely to be as effective as South Korean or US aircraft, they also have 1800 aircraft.

Meanwhile, the thousands of artillery emplacements are pounding South Korea endlessly.

In addition, many of North Korea's military installations are underground, built inside mountains and the like and therefore, even if you did manage to bomb them, it is questionable as to whether it would be effective.

It is likely that the only successful approach would be a nuclear strike and that is a scary prospect for obvious reasons.

[IliketoPuck]

I don't think a nuclear strike is feasible. Even in retaliation against a NK nuclear strike. Going down that road is something I don't think major powers would do unless faced with their own countries being seriously threatened.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by IliketoPuck

I don't think a nuclear strike is feasible. Even in retaliation against a NK nuclear strike. Going down that road is something I don't think major powers would do unless faced with their own countries being seriously threatened.

North Korean missiles are designed to primarily hit South Korea and Japan, they can also reach into China. The question is how many functioning war heads does Noth Korea have? I've heard up to 11.

You can bet that if North Korea hits South Korea or Japan with a nuke, or with chemical or biological weapons that the American's under their treaty obligations would treat all three as if they were nuclear strikes and they would respond. Probably not with city busting ICMB but with field tactical weapons that they would use against Military bases and formations, air fields, key road and rail junctions and naval bases. The Americans would probably use a high altitude airburst nuclear device of significant mega tonnage first though to warn the North Koreans.

In terms of a conventional battle between North and South Korea, the hinge point is North Korea's hardened artillary designed to smash Seoul. The American's and South Korean's would have to take that apart in the opening minutes of the war, and with the highly sophisticated American survaillance satellites, and side lookdown technology I would bet that the majority of these artillary pieces have been targeted for one massive time on target strike from the air, from the sea and from the ground within seconds of the first NK artillary flash.

While NK certainly has a larger army, they don't have the same kind of battlefield intelligence that the SK and American's have. And they are woefully outclassed in terms of tanks, armoured vehicles, aircraft and anti armour technology. The standard NK conscript is poorly trained and must depend on his revolutionary zeal to survive, and this is against the American military tactic shared by the South of killing the enemey long before he even see's you.

On the Navy side, there is little that the North and even China could do against American task forces, and these task forces can certainly project a lot of power over the mainland. The other issue is that both the NK's and Chinese Navy are still not well versed in night operations, wheras the American Navy is extremely good at night operations. The American's have also improved their abilities to use and support amphibious operations once they have established seas superiority.

North Korean subs are a poor comparison to the American Los Angeles, Seaworf and Virginia class submarines, who's first targets would be the Chinese Ballistic missile boats. The NK boats are small, slow and are forced to snorkel, they are designed for special operations insertions instead of convoy destruction.

The big question remains what to do about the hardened NK bases and airfields. It used to be safer to have bases under rock, but the American's learned during the two gulf wars that they needed to improve their penetration bombs, and they have done that extremely well. The American's have also worked hard on deep penetration tactical nuclear weapons.

I'm not saying it would be easy for the SK and American's to beat down North Korea, but the expectation is that the NK airforce and Navy would be taken out as a first priority so that they SK and American's could hunt down the artillary nests.

If the American's and NK can establish air superiority they'd grind down the NK military before it got anywhere near its objectives.

The question as always though is whats China going to do.

[IliketoPuck]

Wwcd?

[Ozy_Flame]

Originally Posted by Nehkara

I think North Korea would be a scary opponent in a war. I think air superiority would be harder than predicted by some. North Korea has 11,000 anti-air weapons and, while unlikely to be as effective as South Korean or US aircraft, they also have 1800 aircraft.

Meanwhile, the thousands of artillery emplacements are pounding South Korea endlessly.

In addition, many of North Korea's military installations are underground, built inside mountains and the like and therefore, even if you did manage to bomb them, it is questionable as to whether it would be effective.

It is likely that the only successful approach would be a nuclear strike and that is a scary prospect for obvious reasons.

Actually, the real issue is whether they automatically get disqualified at the World Cup in South Africa because of this. That is the crux of this whole crisis.