WOW, You Canadians and your Healthcare

[Ironhorse]

double post

[Ironhorse]

Originally Posted by Clarkey

I wonder how much that same appendectomy would cost in Canada?

Originally Posted by GreenTeaFrapp

Nothing.

My friend just had one. No costs at the hospital, but she did get a nice $350 Ambulance bill though.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by flip

Wow, thanks captain obvious.

That issue has already been raised and answered several times. Every single time Canadian vs American health care comes up and someone brings this up but what they never mention is that Americans pay taxes too and their gov. spends money on health care just like ours.

Azure did you really post this thinking that anyone in this thread didn't know that we pay for our health care through taxes?

I posted it because some people seriously think that health care is 'free' here in Canada, without realizing that we actually pay for it.

[Ice]

Originally Posted by Displaced Flames fan

Well, that settles it then.

What are your qualifications to make that sweeping judgement?

I can't wait until the US starts taxing my medical benefits to pay for those who won't work. Then it'll be great!

There's this idea that the US doesn't do enough for the poor. If you are a citizen you are eligible for medicare (almost free healthcare and low cost prescription drugs), you can get food stamps (which has essentially become a debit card since now you can take cash off it to buy things like cigarettes and alcohol that are not food stamp eligible) and WIC, where the government sends you checks to purchase specific items like dairy, formula, diapers, juices, etc. The problem isn't that the goverment isn't doing enough, the problem is that the US isn't using enough discretion. I worked at a grocery store for five months, and watched people with food stamps and WIC come in every week and then go out and get in their brand new cars, some of them nice cars, like a Lexus SUV, meanwhile, the goverment is paying for their food. One of my coworkers was working two jobs and moved back in with her mom in order to take care of her seven year old daughter. People who can work should be encouraged to do so. Instead, our goverment encourages people to either live within poverty level of handouts or manipulate the system. I don't think the number of poor people is being reduced, so is the system working?

This is the government that should be in charge of a universal health care plan? I don't think so.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by Clever_Iggy

That sucks.

I was told it was hard to diagnose. It started out with stomach pains in the spring and went from there. Too young to die

[Azure]

Originally Posted by llama64

I'd rather it taken off as part of my taxes then end up spending tens of thousands to pay for the actual cost.

Most of us who use the term "free healthcare" know it's not "free". But we understand it's a social cost that our taxes pay for over the course of our lives.

It doesn't have to be one or the other.

All you need is good insurance.

Its hilarious how people think that Obama's plan will actually lower costs. Like I pointed out in the other thread, his plan will cost every single person on it $666/month. Which is more or less the going rate for people aged 60 and older in the US right now.

Great savings right there.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Displaced Flames fan

Well, that settles it then.

What are your qualifications to make that sweeping judgement?

I can't wait until the US starts taxing my medical benefits to pay for those who won't work. Then it'll be great!

If you qualify as 'middle class'....you might be taxed anyways.

[missdpuck]

Originally Posted by Ice

There's this idea that the US doesn't do enough for the poor. If you are a citizen you are eligible for medicare (almost free healthcare and low cost prescription drugs), you can get food stamps (which has essentially become a debit card since now you can take cash off it to buy things like cigarettes and alcohol that are not food stamp eligible) and WIC, where the government sends you checks to purchase specific items like dairy, formula, diapers, juices, etc. The problem isn't that the goverment isn't doing enough, the problem is that the US isn't using enough discretion. I worked at a grocery store for five months, and watched people with food stamps and WIC come in every week and then go out and get in their brand new cars, some of them nice cars, like a Lexus SUV, meanwhile, the goverment is paying for their food. One of my coworkers was working two jobs and moved back in with her mom in order to take care of her seven year old daughter. People who can work should be encouraged to do so. Instead, our goverment encourages people to either live within poverty level of handouts or manipulate the system. I don't think the number of poor people is being reduced, so is the system working?

This is the government that should be in charge of a universal health care plan? I don't think so.

Good point Ice. I still can't believe how many people will deny that there are people on welfare, food stamps etc. who drive Escalades etc. There are! I've delivered mail to them. They've admitted that they've committed fraud to get welfare, or have deliberately gotten pregnant to get more aid. Of course they must (?) be in the minority, but to completely deny that it happens is ridiculous. Can't afford to eat but man they've an H3 in the driveway and satellite TV. Most of the homes are pretty scrubby, maybe they hide the cars when the investigator comes by (if at all). I don't get it.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Ice

This is the government that should be in charge of a universal health care plan? I don't think so.

That would be the same government who screws up a 'cash for clunkers' program similar to what numerous PRIVATE dealerships offer on a daily basis.

But hey, we TRUST the government, right? Free health care for everyone!!

[Table 5]

Originally Posted by Azure

All you need is good insurance.

As I mentioned before, 60% of personal bankruptcies in the US are because of health costs, and 70% of those have health insurance. Even if people have the insurance, it seems like if 70% of the plans aren't good enough.

People in Canada fail to realize that there are monetary limits to insurance plans down here. Once you reach a certain amount of money spent (200k or whatever your provider covers) the health insurance company refuses to pay anymore. That is if they even pay it up to the limit. Insurance companies have entire departments dedicated to fighting medical claims.

[HOZ]

Originally Posted by Table 5

I'm not sure you can find a health care system that is cheap, effective, an good anywhere on the planet. Health care is expensive, no matter who pays for it.

No argument from me....but that wasn't the point I was making. Too many Canadians refer to health care as FREE. It is not. Not even close.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Table 5

As I mentioned before, 60% of personal bankruptcies in the US are because of health costs, and 70% of those have health insurance. Even if people have the insurance, it seems like if 70% of the plans aren't good enough.

People in Canada fail to realize that there are monetary limits to insurance plans down here. Once you reach a certain amount of money spent (200k or whatever your provider covers) the health insurance company refuses to pay anymore. That is if they even pay it up to the limit. Insurance companies have entire departments dedicated to fighting medical claims.

Which is why you need to fix those problems. Not just employ ANOTHER health plan on TOP of an already screwed up health care plan, and expect everything to work.

[Table 5]

Originally Posted by Azure

Which is why you need to fix those problems. Not just employ ANOTHER health plan on TOP of an already screwed up health care plan, and expect everything to work.

Personally, I think the only way the US health care system will be fixed is if its done from the ground up. Of course it's hard to nuke a system that you still need to function while you are fixing it, but there are so many levels of bureaucracy, lobbying, and profits involved, it has to be done from scratch.

[Ice]

Originally Posted by missdpuck

Good point Ice. I still can't believe how many people will deny that there are people on welfare, food stamps etc. who drive Escalades etc. There are! I've delivered mail to them. They've admitted that they've committed fraud to get welfare, or have deliberately gotten pregnant to get more aid. Of course they must (?) be in the minority, but to completely deny that it happens is ridiculous. Can't afford to eat but man they've an H3 in the driveway and satellite TV. Most of the homes are pretty scrubby, maybe they hide the cars when the investigator comes by (if at all). I don't get it.

I'm almost to the point where I think the American public needs to clean house in Washington. Get some hardass people with economic backgrounds in there to clean house in regards to spending. We all know the stories of people paid by the government to "not grow corn" and other ridiculous goverment programs, like the ridiculous "Cash for Clunkers." You get rid of all incumbants and the special interest groups are virtually powerless. Politicians get salaries and no expense accounts. No more TV commercials, if you want to be my congressmen, spend some time in my district and tell me why you deserve my vote. I don't care what kind of background you come from, how much money your family has, how many times you filed bankruptcy, I care about what you bring to solving the financial problems in this country. Meh, now I'm just ranting. But yeah, I think there is plenty of taxpayer money to make everyone's life better, including the poor. But I don't think any money should be handed out without it being earned in some fashion unless you are a senior citizen or disabled.

[MarchHare]

Originally Posted by HOZ

No argument from me....but that wasn't the point I was making. Too many Canadians refer to health care as FREE. It is not. Not even close.

Socialized medical care isn't free, but it IS cheaper (by a wide margin) compared to the American system of private insurance.

[Hemi-Cuda]

Originally Posted by Azure

That would be the same government who screws up a 'cash for clunkers' program similar to what numerous PRIVATE dealerships offer on a daily basis.

But hey, we TRUST the government, right? Free health care for everyone!!

this is such a stupid argument, and one i can't believe gets so much traction in the states. so you'll trust your government to protect your freedom with the military, to protect and serve locally with a police force, to protect homes and businesses from fire, and to educate your children. but yet somehow the government is too stupid to be trusted to provide you healthcare

[Displaced Flames fan]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

Socialized medical care isn't free, but it IS cheaper (by a wide margin) compared to the American system of private insurance.

Cheaper for who? The government or the consumer?

It would be interesting to see how wages compare between the two nations. Health insurance premiums are always lauded as the biggest financial roadblock for private corporations.

[Zarathustra]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

Socialized medical care isn't free, but it IS cheaper (by a wide margin) compared to the American system of private insurance.

Blasphemy! Government run programs are always more expensive and bureaucratic! Stop buying into the government propaganda!

[Hemi-Cuda]

Originally Posted by Displaced Flames fan

Cheaper for who? The government or the consumer?

It would be interesting to see how wages compare between the two nations. Health insurance premiums are always lauded as the biggest financial roadblock for private corporations.

cheaper for the government, and vastly cheaper for those with real medical issues

[Displaced Flames fan]

Originally Posted by Hemi-Cuda

this is such a stupid argument, and one i can't believe gets so much traction in the states. so you'll trust your government to protect your freedom with the military, to protect and serve locally with a police force, to protect homes and businesses from fire, and to educate your children. but yet somehow the government is too stupid to be trusted to provide you healthcare

It's not a stupid argument at all

Your analogous 'trusts' aren't so analogous.

How can you compare defense, policing and fire protection to universal health care? Why did you not mention welfare? Social Security? They would be the most comparable programs to a universal health care system. They've failed miserably there.