'Girls over 10 or 12 years are eligible for marriage'

[longsuffering]

Originally Posted by peter12

Most Muslim schools of jurisprudence agree that the penalty for apostasy under sharia law is death.

Reform and revision are possible, but it's going to be a bloody path.

As it was for Christianity.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by longsuffering

As it was for Christianity.

What's your point?

Should we, as secularists, be prepared to willingly go through a modern version of the Great Schism and the Thirty Years War?

Silly comment.

[First Lady]

Originally Posted by longsuffering

WOW. Nice try again.

Why so bizarre?

You should look up the word hypocrite.

First you accuse me of painting all Muslims with the same Sharia brush.

Then you paint an entire party based on the warped sense of humor of one member.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by longsuffering

And thankfully, no Muslim woman in Britain may be forced to agree to a divorce under Sharia law.

Honestly, I doubt any woman suffering under Sharia law has any clue what her rights are beyond what her owner...err, husband tells her.

[First Lady]

Originally Posted by longsuffering

And thankfully, no Muslim woman in Britain may be forced to agree to a divorce under Sharia law.

Hopefully not. However British women (in fact all women) living in Saudi are subject to the law.

http://www.getbracknell.co.uk/news/s..._marnie_pearce

[Cheese]

The American Thinker...an American right wing e-zine has their take on Sharia Law:

Top Ten reasons

and this article is excellent on "Muslim women behind wall of silence in Germany"
"They are under the control of the man or their families," she explains. "This is women who are physically living in Germany, but psychologically living in another culture, which is looking for gender apartheid."
Polls show that only one-third of Muslims in Germany want to integrate. And German authorities worry about the rise in the number of uneducated, imported brides and grooms from Turkey, who arrive through both arranged and forced marriages.

[longsuffering]

Originally Posted by peter12

What's your point?

Should we, as secularists, be prepared to willingly go through a modern version of the Great Schism and the Thirty Years War?

Silly comment.

I'm not sure of your point but thanks for your insight. "Silly comment" adds so much to the discussion.

My point was that for Islam to evolve, it will be a long, difficult and potentially bloody process. It took many years, and some blood for the Catholic Church to evolve to where it is today. I'm not sure how that relates to the Great Schism in the Western Church or the 30 Years war but I guess you see a connection.

Perhaps you thought I meant there should be a modern day crusade or that the secular west should prevent a Schism from happening within Islam. Maybe you would like to clarify.

[longsuffering]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

Honestly, I doubt any woman suffering under Sharia law has any clue what her rights are beyond what her owner...err, husband tells her.

I think you are wrong there. The Muslim women I worked with in Yemen that lived under Sharia law knew their rights under that law and what their rights in the West would be as well.

In any case, if what you suggest is true how would that woman's lot in life improve if Britain did not permit the use of Sharia law in any instance?

[longsuffering]

Originally Posted by First Lady

Hopefully not. However British women (in fact all women) living in Saudi are subject to the law.

Wow!!! Really????

Would that mean I would be subject to Saudi law if I lived there too? Would I be subject to British law if I lived there? Would I be subject to Chinese laws if I lived there?

It's 'wrong' that the type of thing can happen but it shouldn't be a surprise to anyone. Is it surprising that a person would be bound by the local laws any customs of the place he lives or visits?

What do you think should happen? Should foreigners be exempt from local law?

[burn_this_city]

Originally Posted by peter12

What's your point?

Should we, as secularists, be prepared to willingly go through a modern version of the Great Schism and the Thirty Years War?

Silly comment.

Honestly, its almost to the point where it would be worth fighting over. Religion to me is a form of mental illness. If you are so blind to ignore the evidence thats contrary to what is preached well you're just lying to yourself. As an atheist I believe it would almost be worth dying for, to spare future generations the blight of religious oppression. In another 1000 years the crap people "believe" now will be the stuff of fairytales

[burn_this_city]

Originally Posted by longsuffering

Wow!!! Really????

Would that mean I would be subject to Saudi law if I lived there too? Would I be subject to British law if I lived there? Would I be subject to Chinese laws if I lived there?

It's 'wrong' that the type of thing can happen but it shouldn't be a surprise to anyone. Is it surprising that a person would be bound by the local laws any customs of the place he lives or visits?

What do you think should happen? Should foreigners be exempt from local law?

Why should you get a different set of rules?? Whats wrong with our laws here in the west?? Too lax? Not oppressive enough?

[Daradon]

Originally Posted by burn_this_city

Why should you get a different set of rules?? Whats wrong with our laws here in the west?? Too lax? Not oppressive enough?

I think you misunderstood the point he was trying to make.

He was simply saying that people should observe the rules of the place they are in.

EDIT: And even though we know some of them in other countries may be 'wrong' when it comes to human rights, we will still be held by their standards there.

We can't behave like we would in Canada in Saudi Arabia.

[burn_this_city]

Originally Posted by Daradon

I think you misunderstood the point he was trying to make.

He was simply saying that people should observe the rules of the place they are in.

I know that.. My point is, why do some group feel the need to import their set of rules.

[Daradon]

Originally Posted by burn_this_city

I know that.. My point is, why do some group feel the need to import their set of rules.

Cause they haven't learned freedom the way we have. It's up to us to make sure our freedoms stay for every person in our countries, whether it's our communities, or Muslim communities.

Rights and freedoms should not change in the same country, regardless of the faith you have. They should be across the board.

But it's their culture and lack of freedom that makes them want to import them I think. Faith (or at least the attitude towards it) being a product of that, not necessarily the driving force as many would believe.

[burn_this_city]

Thats rediculous though, why would we allow them to import their own rules that will allow them to segregate themselves from mainstream society? Just because they had a lack of freedom back home doesnt mean we should tolerate it here.

[Cheese]

Originally Posted by longsuffering

Wow!!! Really????

Would that mean I would be subject to Saudi law if I lived there too? Would I be subject to British law if I lived there? Would I be subject to Chinese laws if I lived there?

It's 'wrong' that the type of thing can happen but it shouldn't be a surprise to anyone. Is it surprising that a person would be bound by the local laws any customs of the place he lives or visits?

What do you think should happen? Should foreigners be exempt from local law?

Seriously...I think you are hammering on FirstLady just for the sake of hammering. I dont think its justified or warranted regardless of what you believe.
Your entire post here has nothing to do with the OP and what we are talking about. I know that if I go to Saudi Arabia I will have to abide by their rules...so does my wife. If however they come to Canada or any other free country that doesnt abide by their rules its up to them to abide by what we want. Campaigning for Sharia law within a country that isnt Muslim is simply campaigning for a theocracy.
I dont personally care what you saw in the Muslim countries you visited or lived in. There are decent Muslims who live under oppression, just as there are jerk-offs who demand Sharia oppression to the maximum strength of their law. The common thread between them all is they believe a man rode a winged horse to heaven where the holy book was transcribed and brought back to earth. There are decent Catholics and Baptists who believe in fairy tales just as there are ignorant SOBs who believe Armageddon is just around the corner. Keeping these idiots out of Canada and the west is what we must do....that starts with keeping ANY FORM of Sharia law out of the country.
ANY religious form of oppression, whether Roman Catholic, who are mostly laughed at these days anyways, or the ignorant clerics of Muslim faith, who scare the crap out of most people, should be held accountable.
Religion gives them the perfect alibi.

[Cheese]

Muslims against Sharia

Muslims against Sharia blog excellent article on the death of a young Toronto girl.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by longsuffering

I'm not sure of your point but thanks for your insight. "Silly comment" adds so much to the discussion.

My point was that for Islam to evolve, it will be a long, difficult and potentially bloody process. It took many years, and some blood for the Catholic Church to evolve to where it is today. I'm not sure how that relates to the Great Schism in the Western Church or the 30 Years war but I guess you see a connection.

Perhaps you thought I meant there should be a modern day crusade or that the secular west should prevent a Schism from happening within Islam. Maybe you would like to clarify.

My point is that if there is going to be a bloody Islamic reformation, we should not simply accept it as a course of history and allow the same butchery seen during the transformation of the Catholic Church.

[First Lady]

Originally Posted by longsuffering

Wow!!! Really????

Would that mean I would be subject to Saudi law if I lived there too? Would I be subject to British law if I lived there? Would I be subject to Chinese laws if I lived there?

It's 'wrong' that the type of thing can happen but it shouldn't be a surprise to anyone. Is it surprising that a person would be bound by the local laws any customs of the place he lives or visits?

What do you think should happen? Should foreigners be exempt from local law?

Where did I say any of that? I have a family member who survived a Saudi prison; I know all too well that if someone lives (or visits) they have to live by it.

I was simply giving you an example of how it does effect "non-Muslims". You are trying to portray Sharia law as some obscure practice that only effects a small number who partake in it; which is BS.

One problem comes when they bring their "laws" to other countries all in the name of "religion". Type Sharia law and any country (like UK, Australia or France), in a google news search. It is causing problems well outside the borders of the countries where the law is in place.

Another problem is whether the rest of the world should just sit by and accept that women and children are oppressed, abused, raped and murdered.

[longsuffering]

Originally Posted by peter12

My point is that if there is going to be a bloody Islamic reformation, we should not simply accept it as a course of history and allow the same butchery seen during the transformation of the Catholic Church.

Thanks for the clarifiication - Really.

So what do you propose 'we' do? How would 'we' prevent an Islamic reformation?