Anyone else see that Pro-Life Display on Campus?

[evman150]

Originally Posted by Freeway

The Conservatives & Liberals are both centrist, albeit Liberals being left-leaning and Conservatives right-leaning. Beyond that, making broad generalizations about the populaces of provinces based upon their voting histories is just plain ignorant.

The conservatives are centrist until they get their majority, when finally they can unleash their real agenda upon us.

If you want to live in a regressive society, fine with me. Vote for those guys. It's your right.

Edit: I probably didn't want to post that...oh well...too late LOL.

[FireFly]

Originally Posted by Thunderball

Without going into too much detail, it is very important to make sure that abortion is always available to those who need it (rape, life of the mother in peril)... but ways must be made to ensure its not a contraceptive for women who choose not to use any other kind of birth control. Neither camp really has provisions for that. Pro-life says any abortion is evil for religious and secular reasons, and pro-choice says anything that prevents the woman's right to choose is regressive and also evil. That is why both sides irritate me.

Absolutely agree. God forbid I'm ever put in the position where I have to choose my life or the child's.

[Phaneuf3]

Originally Posted by evman150

Yes you are backward for voting conservative. Sorry, but that's what I think. Don't like the "criminals"? Vote NDP, vote Green, vote Marijuana. Whatever.

I do like the green platform - even though some of their policies while well meaning were kinda not too well thought out - and probably would have voted for them if they had even a remote shot of at least forming the opposition -- not struggling for official party status

[Phaneuf3]

Originally Posted by evman150

The first paragraph there, that's racism. That is hate. Those are things I am vehemently against.

As for your second point, if you got permission from the party, good luck with that. If not, then get ready to be sued and jailed, and rightfully so. Say it in your name, not in someone else's name.

see this is where it gets fuzzy... those pro-lifers were putting on a demonstration that gets us all painted with the same brush. its hurting the cause and is offensive (yes, even to me). should they be able to be sued and jailed for me for making my beliefs look evil and regressive?

and what if i was to run as an independant under my dead baby campain? would taht be ok with you?

[FireFly]

Originally Posted by Weiser Wonder

Honestly? I'd call it necessary. When does life start? I'd say birth, because before that it's a part of the mother, and in my opinion that's her call.

Well then I hope you want the guy to win his anti-paternity payment suit, cause that would be his call.

Comparing it to genocide of any kind, is ridiculous. There's a difference between a personal decision a group of people torturing, killing, raping and utterly degrading a people, at least in my opinion.

It's also a personal decision to torture, kill, rape, and utterly degrade a people. If everyone else jumps off a bridge, would you do it too?

Lastly, I don't find the logic in people seeing abortion as a way out. It sounds horrible, and I don't know anyone who says, "Screw condoms, if it comes to that we'll just abort." Free abortions might encourage this type of irresponsibility, but that's not why it's done. It is done to allow everyone to have access to that type of treatment, which is one thing I love about Canada.

Of course people don't say it! WTF would people around them think?! How many prostitutes do you think always use condoms and are on the pill? What do you think they say about what happens if there's an accident? General society doesn't think that way, but a 14 year old who is too shy to buy condoms and doesn't want to go to the family doctor to go on the pill might just take that chance, whether they think that way in advance or not. I realize free abortions are not done to encourage irresponsibility, but it does.

[Thunderball]

Originally Posted by Phaneuf3

ok... i'm going to say this once more... see if you guys can catch this....

PRO-LIFE =/= RELIGIOUS

that's not to say that pro lifers can't be religious but i'm tired of reading this crap that they all are. its simply not true.

and most reasonable pro-life supporters agree that if carrying the baby to term will kill the mother that abortion may be an option. the people that you see demonstrating at the u of c are not your typical or representitive pro-lifers

I dunno if you read my comment right, or just quoted it for no reason... but I said religious AND SECULAR... as in non-religious.

[LGA]

I kinda see it from both sides.

For the pro-choice standpoint, sometimes things do go really wrong regardless of how prepared you are in terms of protection. It should also be readily available for those women that may have their own live threatened by the demands of an unborn child. A women may become pregnant due to a rape case, she really shouldn't have to bear the child of her the person that assaulted her and caused her so much pain.

For the pro-life, it's true we don't really know when the baby is concious and therefore we don't know if they feel pain or what not during an abortion. Who knows a great athlete, a great mind or a wonderful person could be snuffed from the world forever through an abortion.

Basically I don't mind either view, but I do not like the propaganda the pro-life group spews. Really use a convincing argument, don't try to forcefully change peoples opinions through grotesque images, and using truely horrible events in human history.

I don't really think a women going in for abortion neccessarily is hoping for the death of an entire population or anything, it's not like she truely hates it or anything, at least I don't believe so. That's the difference between the Holocaust, and genocide compared to abortion, the two former events were done through malicious hate for being different then those that started the attacks. Not really comparable IMO.

[icarus]

Firstly, Voltaire never actually said the quote that is attributed to him.

Originally Posted by FireFly

(Also, please remember that it wasn't just Jews who were killed during the Holocaust, and babies of all ethnicities are being killed by abortion. It's not about race!)

It's not about race (well, the Holocaust was mostly about race), it is about hatred. That's the difference. Hatred doesn't fuel abortion, although it may fuel some of the protesters.

Originally Posted by LGA

I don't really think a women going in for abortion neccessarily is hoping for the death of an entire population or anything, it's not like she truely hates it or anything, at least I don't believe so. That's the difference between the Holocaust, and genocide compared to abortion, the two former events were done through malicious hate for being different then those that started the attacks. Not really comparable IMO.

I agree.

[Superfraggle]

evman...I'd like to see you present something to back up your claims. You're coming off as someone who gets an initial impression of a person or group and latches onto those assumptions blindly whenever they come back up. Without going back and checking, specifically your claims that 90% of the Albertans on this board are Conservative, all pro-lifers are religious, and Conservatism is naturally regressive.

edit: oh, and you got called on the Voltaire thing because your quote was an obvious rip-off of one by him, only warped to suit your purposes.

[FireFly]

Originally Posted by icarus

It's not about race (well, the Holocaust was mostly about race), it is about hatred. That's the difference. Hatred doesn't fuel abortion, although it may fuel some of the protesters.

And you've had an abortion so you know this? I'm sure you'd be surprised at some women's motives.

I would also suggest that while Hitler's motives were related to hatred, many (not all) of the Nazis were motivated by other things. Survival for one, blame for another. Both things that motivate some abortions. For as many reasons as women have abortions, I'm sure there were reasons Nazis had for partaking in the Holocaust.

Now, I'm not saying that abortion is equally as horrifying as the atrocities committed by the Nazis. I'm not even saying that it's a good campaign by the pro-life group. I think that the picture of the aborted fetus is quite enough, thank-you very much, what with it being the size of a nickel and showing human qualities. What I am saying is that you cannot say it is a ridiculous comparison when there are a number of things the two have in common that you cannot dismiss out of hand. Certainly it's mean to shock and disgust people. That's the point. The level of abortions in North America should also shock and disgust people. It's made us all have a nice rational discussion on the matter, which is also the point. I'd say such signs are doing their job.

[Phaneuf3]

Originally Posted by Thunderball

I dunno if you read my comment right, or just quoted it for no reason... but I said religious AND SECULAR... as in non-religious.

i honestly just read up to religious and after that didn't give a damn what else you said because anyone who says pro-life = religious is a complte jackass and was tired of hearing it. now that i actualy do read your full post, yes.. i see that's not what you were intending to say.

i appologize good sir. my comment still stands but is no longer directed at you.

[icarus]

Originally Posted by FireFly

And you've had an abortion so you know this? I'm sure you'd be surprised at some women's motives.

You're not actually suggesting that some women abort for reasons akin to the systematic hatred employed by the Nazis, are you?

Originally Posted by FireFly

I would also suggest that while Hitler's motives were related to hatred, many (not all) of the Nazis were motivated by other things. Survival for one, blame for another. Both things that motivate some abortions. For as many reasons as women have abortions, I'm sure there were reasons Nazis had for partaking in the Holocaust.

But are they the same reasons? I find such a claim outlandish. Survival was a motive for the Holocaust? What?!? Blame (and I think you refer to the scapegoating of Jews that took place) led to the systematic hatred that fueled the Holocaust. The Holocaust was systematic and hateful. I fail to see how abortion is the same.

Originally Posted by FireFly

What I am saying is that you cannot say it is a ridiculous comparison when there are a number of things the two have in common that you cannot dismiss out of hand.

Are you serious? I think the onus is on you to establish the number of things the Holocaust and abortion have in common. Then we will see if they can be dismissed.

[MRCboicgy]

The term regressive is where you lose your arguement. Calling a society or culture progressive or regressive is ethnocentric--just like calling native americans "primitive. A society is just that--society, nothing more and nothing less.

[evman150]

Originally Posted by Superfraggle

edit: oh, and you got called on the Voltaire thing because your quote was an obvious rip-off of one by him, only warped to suit your purposes.

But that was the point...



I'm basing the conservative comment on any and all of the political threads on this forum, specifically leading up to the election. It seemed like damn near everyone was screaming "criminals", "corruption" etc. And those people sure as hell weren't NDP voters.

[evman150]

Originally Posted by MRCboicgy

The term regressive is where you lose your arguement. Calling a society or culture progressive or regressive is ethnocentric--just like calling native americans "primitive. A society is just that--society, nothing more and nothing less.

I don't quite get what you're trying to say. Why is it ethnocentric?

I'm not saying you're wrong, just asking for some clarification.

[Superfraggle]

Originally Posted by evman150

I don't quite get what you're trying to say. Why is it ethnocentric?

I'm not saying you're wrong, just asking for some clarification.

because you're placing a value on one system over another. When the Europeans started colonizing the new world, they considered the native way of life "primitive" and would have considered any shift towards it "regressive". It's a different way of doing things, and you may prefer one way over another, but terms like "regressive" make it sound like your way is inherently better.

[Superfraggle]

Originally Posted by evman150

I'm basing the conservative comment on any and all of the political threads on this forum, specifically leading up to the election. It seemed like damn near everyone was screaming "criminals", "corruption" etc. And those people sure as hell weren't NDP voters.

You're making broad generalizations, which I don't think are fair. That's all I'm saying. You haven't yet backed them up with any evidence.

[FireFly]

Originally Posted by icarus

You're not actually suggesting that some women abort for reasons akin to the systematic hatred employed by the Nazis, are you?

Well now you throw in systematic... I'm saying some women may indeed hate the child. Hate what it's doing, hate what it means, hate that it's putting them through pregnancy and abortion.

But are they the same reasons? I find such a claim outlandish. Survival was a motive for the Holocaust? What?!? Blame (and I think you refer to the scapegoating of Jews that took place) led to the systematic hatred that fueled the Holocaust. The Holocaust was systematic and hateful. I fail to see how abortion is the same.

I find such a claim that EVERY Nazi hated Jews is outlandish. I didn't say survival was a motive behind the Holocaust, I said it may have been a personal motive for people to join the Nazis and end up killing. I think it's quite probable that some of them joined the Nazis in order to survive from day to day. Food, shelter, clothing. You know the basics we all take for granted? Yeah, some people didn't have that, and probably joined up just for such security. I'd say hate is a strong word and while a lot of people were told to hate the Jews, some of them just blamed them without hatred. That's possible too.

Are you serious? I think the onus is on you to establish the number of things the Holocaust and abortion have in common. Then we will see if they can be dismissed.

It's not the onus of me at all, it's the onus of the people who put up the signs actually. I'm just throwing out ideas here. Thinking outside the box and all that.

[SeeGeeWhy]

Originally Posted by evman150

I don't think we harbour radical right wing zealots like that here.

And even if we did they would not feel comfortable pulling a stunt like this like they do there.

[...]

I don't think "right wing bible thumpers mocking the holocaust" fits on that list.

Oh yeah, that's right... because everything and everyone in BS .. I mean BC, is perfect. I forgot.

[Lanny_MacDonald]

Interesting discussion. I'd just like to toss in my demented two cents here (just to get the fur flying).

FireFly, I think you should have your tits done (some nice big double "d" fun bags that defy gravity would be awesome), get your thighs and ass liposuctioned, some botox around the eyes and a complete makeover. You know, I bet you need your legs lengthened too, so lets just have them broken and stretched shall we. Sounds like a plan and a half! When can we get you in for those procedures?

Pretty ignorant request now, isn't it. Especially when you consider I don't know FireFly or her situation, so who the hell am I to tell he what to do with her body? I have no right. I can make suggestions, but I can't tell her to do anything when it comes to her body. Pro-life groups really have to remember that.

One thing I do find very amusing is that the radical pro-life groups here in the US (in the States I have experience in anyways) are the same clowns that are pro-death penalty. The irony always makes me laugh!