RIP Chris Simon

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by cam_calderon

You are right. I've amended my post.

Yeah it seems his skill level isn't high enough to stay in the league, so he needs to bring a physical edge. That's the playstyle he's developed as he chases a fulltime role on an NHL club. But my central point is it's his choice - he isn't being forced. Therefore he will live with the consequences.

Which part is not his choice?

You’re right, young men make the best decisions, especially when it comes to decisions with long term health risk as the downside and the ability to get rich and live your dream as the upside. If he’s made his decision, we must respect it. Conversation over.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by cam_calderon

You are right. I've amended my post.

Yeah it seems his skill level isn't high enough to stay in the league, so he needs to bring a physical edge. That's the playstyle he's developed as he chases a fulltime role on an NHL club. But my central point is it's his choice - he isn't being forced. Therefore he will live with the consequences.

Which part is not his choice?

Not all choices are uncoerced. this looks like one of them. You have basically admitted this kid needs to fight to be an NHLer. Why is that a thing?

[cam_calderon]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Not all choices are uncoerced. this looks like one of them. You have basically admitted this kid needs to fight to be an NHLer. Why is that a thing?

Because it's only punished by a five-minute penalty, and they're usually matching penalties. Some fans really enjoy fighting and it sells tickets and TV/streaming packages.

I actually don't agree with it. I think physical play and intimidation are part of the game but we've passed the need for fighting. But Rempe knows what he's doing - he'll need to live with whatever consequences come.

[cam_calderon]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

You’re right, young men make the best decisions, especially when it comes to decisions with long term health risk as the downside and the ability to get rich and live your dream as the upside. If he’s made his decision, we must respect it. Conversation over.

He's a 21-year-old man. His cognitive function is not impaired. So there is no need to infantilise him. It's actually insulting to imply he's not capable of his own decisions.

[cam_calderon]

There are 21-year-old boxers. Should boxing be banned?

[EastCoastFlamesFan]

Hate to hear this RIP. As others have mentioned, loved picking him up for the '04 run. I always forget that he was traded for Jamie McLennan (plus Blair Betts, Greg Moore and a 7th round pick). I always associate Noodles as a part of the 04 run and not Roman Turek.

Was looking at Simon's stats and that '93 Nords squad. Imagine lining up on the ice against a line with a 21 year old Chris Simon and a 24 year old Tony Twist. Good lord.

Also, ban fighting. This is coming from someone (me) who used to love it and collect fight tapes. It does not belong in the game anymore.

[Zary's-Mustache]

Originally Posted by cam_calderon

There are 21-year-old boxers. Should boxing be banned?

21 year old boxers are professional fighters. They literally have trained their entire lives to fight.

A 21 year old NHL player is a professional hockey player. They don't train how to fight at even a fraction of the same level as a boxer.

You can't compare the two. Boxers do get injured but in their case it is literally what they signed up for since a very young age.

Most hockey players don't get into hockey so they can fight. It happens when they feel it's their only path to the nhl and a pay cheque.

[cam_calderon]

Pretty sure Rempe would've dropped the mitts a time or two before he made the pro level.

[Zary's-Mustache]

Originally Posted by cam_calderon

Pretty sure Rempe would've dropped the mitts a time or two before he made the pro level.

And he still isn't a professional fighter.

[Cycling76er]

Originally Posted by Zary's-Mustache

21 year old boxers are professional fighters. They literally have trained their entire lives to fight.

A 21 year old NHL player is a professional hockey player. They don't train how to fight at even a fraction of the same level as a boxer.

You can't compare the two. Boxers do get injured but in their case it is literally what they signed up for since a very young age.

Most hockey players don't get into hockey so they can fight. It happens when they feel it's their only path to the nhl and a pay cheque.

Can we, respectfully, drop all of this discussion please? This is absolutely not the thread for it.

I'm only quoting you but there are others.

[Huntingwhale]

Very sad news. Sounds like he fell on hard times the past few years which is very unfortunate. Most Flames fans know his name, even if they weren't fans in '04. RIP.

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

And yet fighting is still allowed in the NHL as these guys continue to die and take their own lives
Shameful

I have made a complete 180 turn on fighting. Used to be fun to watch guys chuck fists at each other and I'll admit I still get that rush when I see one break out. But man oh man does there need to be a harsh deep dive into fighting in the league, and harsh punishments towards the league if they allow it to continue.

I always cringed when I read posts here about Lucic not fighting so and so or "not doing his job". Guys like Ferland "are useless" because he doesn't fight after '15. Even a guy like Iggy chucking them and getting us all energized, but damn him for not "taking his helmet off and beating someone's ass" in his mid-30s. Nobody should be forced into that role and even when I see a young guy in the AHL trying to make an impression to the coaches during pre-season by fighting, it's uncomfortable to see.

I can only imagine the reckoning that is likely coming to organized fighting leagues like UFC a decade or 2 down the road when CTE starts catching up with these guys.

[cam_calderon]

Originally Posted by Huntingwhale

But man oh man does there need to be a harsh deep dive into fighting in the league, and harsh punishments towards the league if they allow it to continue.

I can only imagine the reckoning that is likely coming to organized fighting leagues like UFC a decade or 2 down the road when CTE starts catching up with these guys.

What organisation is going to dole out punishment to the NHL or UFC? They exist within the normal laws of the US and Canada but outside of that, who has jurisdiction to sanction these leagues?

[Francis's Hairpiece]

Absolutely heartbreaking that he was in such a a bad place that he felt there was no other option.
I wish for their sake more could be done for these guys. A young guy like Pospisil who's had a bunch of concussion issues already at such a young age....
Hopefully this is addressed sooner rather than later. Hind sight is always 20/20, and the choices they made in the past, without the knowledge of the repercussions, shouldn't preclude them from getting the help they need today.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by cam_calderon

There are 21-year-old boxers. Should boxing be banned?

Yes. As should MMA fighting. All of this is far too gladiatorial for my liking. There are long-term health consequences for all these guys who beat the crap out of each other. It's barbaric.

[cam_calderon]

Originally Posted by Cali Panthers Fan

Yes. As should MMA fighting. All of this is far too gladiatorial for my liking. There are long-term health consequences for all these guys who beat the crap out of each other. It's barbaric.

You're right that it's barbaric. But I guess that's the exact appeal for fans of fighting, be it in the NHL or the actual combat sports.

But where there's money to be made, athletes' health drops down the priority list.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Cycling76er

Can we, respectfully, drop all of this discussion please? This is absolutely not the thread for it.

I'm only quoting you but there are others.

This IS the thread for it.
Two members of that Flames team are now dead because of concussions
I can’t look back at that team with nothing other than profound sadness.
Bob Probert
Derek Boogard
Rick Rypien
Wade Belak

Too many.

[cam_calderon]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

This IS the thread for it.
Two members of that Flames team are now dead because of concussions
I can’t look back at that team with nothing other than profound sadness.
Bob Probert
Derek Boogard
Rick Rypien
Wade Belak

Too many.

Ferland's career significantly curtailed also. But when I look at his career, he played in a way that maximised his abilities and he made millions doing it. I hope he can live a full life (he is still just 31).

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by cam_calderon

He's a 21-year-old man. His cognitive function is not impaired. So there is no need to infantilise him. It's actually insulting to imply he's not capable of his own decisions.

I guess you can tell the doctors and scientists who have studied human behaviour, psychology, and the brain that it’s actually infantilizing to suggest young adults aren’t the best evaluators of risk nor make the best decisions.

But hey, he’s an adult, and we all know everyone has all the experience and brain development they need as soon as they become an adult, so it’s all good

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by cam_calderon

Ferland's career significantly curtailed also. But when I look at his career, he played in a way that maximised his abilities and he made millions doing it. I hope he can live a full life (he is still just 31).

Chris Simon made over $15M by “maximizing his abilities”. He’s dead, after a troubled and short life.

Rick Rypien made under $3M. Died at 27.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

I guess you can tell the doctors and scientists who have studied human behaviour, psychology, and the brain that it’s actually infantilizing to suggest young adults aren’t the best evaluators of risk nor make the best decisions.

But hey, he’s an adult, and we all know everyone has all the experience and brain development they need as soon as they become an adult, so it’s all good

My kids are around that age and man, can they not make good decisions a lot of the time.