Markstrom breaks finger - week to week; Wolf recalled.

[Enoch Root]

Can you add 'NONE' to the list? (it's been very much a lunch-bucket, team game to this point, IMO)

[TrentCrimmIndependent]

That's a hard one to answer, just because it was a tale of two teams.

They all contributed to the suckage when they were losing and they all have contributed something to their current stretch of good hockey.

Either Markstrom for holding the fort since game 1 behind a circus or Zary for altering the course of the season.

[CliffFletcher]

Dom Luszczyszyn at the Athletic actually has Markstrom ranked 5th in the Vezina race so far. He blames the save pct on an extremely porous defence in front of him. So maybe we’re underrating Markstom and overrating Andersson, Weegar, Hanifin, and Tanev.

Luszczyszyn’s model also has Bedard at 9th for the Calder. So there’s that.

[Enoch Root]

Still think the best answer is no one.

But how can Andersson not be on the list? 10-7-3 with him, 0-4-0 without (similar argument for Zary)

And Hanifin deserves some votes as well.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Dom Luszczyszyn at the Athletic actually has Markstrom ranked 5th in the Vezina race so far. He blames the save pct on an extremely porous defence in front of him. So maybe we’re underrating Markstom and overrating Andersson, Weegar, Hanifin, and Tanev.

Luszczyszyn’s model also has Bedard at 9th for the Calder. So there’s that.

So we're wrong about Markstrom, Andersson, Weegar, Hanifin, AND Tanev?

Or, the simpler answer is that we aren't wrong about everyone, and the save percentage is warranted? I mean, crazy, right? But possible, no?

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

So we're wrong about Markstrom, Andersson, Weegar, Hanifin, AND Tanev?

Or, the simpler answer is that we aren't wrong about everyone, and the save percentage is warranted? I mean, crazy, right? But possible, no?

Hey, I’m just the messenger. Luszczyszyn’s model could be wonky.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Hey, I’m just the messenger. Luszczyszyn’s model could be wonky.

I know. I am arguing the point from Luszczyszyn.

But how much mental gymnastics do we have to do to buy the story?

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Dom Luszczyszyn at the Athletic actually has Markstrom ranked 5th in the Vezina race so far. He blames the save pct on an extremely porous defence in front of him. So maybe we’re underrating Markstom and overrating Andersson, Weegar, Hanifin, and Tanev.

It's not a problem with the top four defencemen, either. It's a problem with the whole team learning a new defensive system and catching on at different speeds. When some players are playing the zone system, some are having brain farts and reverting to the man system, and a few are just lost in the clouds, you get the kind of defence the Flames had in October.

I would not call that defence ‘porous’. I would call it the Decapitated Chicken Defence. Most nights, the team would get hemmed in their own zone and run around with their heads cut off.

That stretch was long enough that it will continue to make the overall defensive stats look worse all season. In October, the team gave up 33 goals in nine games (not counting SO) – 3.67 GA/GP. Since then they have given up 45 in 15 games – 3.00 GA/GP. The league average so far this year is about 3.1, so they've gone from really bad to middle of the pack. But those early losses are still in the books, so the average for the whole season is still pretty bad.

From what I've been able to tell, Markstrom was actually at his best in October, and it was fair to call him the MVP at that time – or perhaps the OVP (Only Valuable Player). He would have saved the team's bacon, but most nights there was no bacon to save. Since then the team has improved dramatically, but he appears to have fallen off a bit.

These next weeks will be the perfect opportunity to see how much of the team's defensive performance was on the skaters and how much was on Markstrom.

[Goriders]

Originally Posted by taxbuster

I look at this year as a free "experimental" time ....so, let's do that! Hopefully Flames management sees it similarly.

I said the same thing. Look at it as a full season training camp. If any of the young guys can perform at the level of any of the older players. Dump all of those older players throughout the season.

Load up on cap space and any draft picks you can. Fill in a few gaps with free agents in the offseason and keep going. Change the team on the fly. I’m guessing with almost zero drop off in performance as the Flames don’t really have and players that massively stand out over others.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

I, for one, am a big fan of polls completely off topic from the thread they’re posted in.

Can we get a “who should the flames trade first?” in the attendance thread? Or maybe a poll on our best centre in the Kyllington thread. Why not a “how many games will Wolf start?” in the trade rumours thread?

It’ll be like a 2 in 1 feature for every thread.

[blender]

No Hanifin?
Bizarre omission IMO.

[Goriders]

Originally Posted by Locke

Honestly? I really hope that Vladar and Wolf take the opportunity and just split the games evenly. 1A/1B and adjust as each of them maybe develops a hot-streak or starts to falter.

Just rock the hot-hand and lets roll!

I hope they both light it up. I think you could trade Markstrom at this point. He has been playing well. No way you could have said that last year.

[CalgaryFan1988]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

It's close between Kadri and Weegar. Markstrom still too inconsistent and he still has first shot is a goal syndrome.

Hanifin has been better than both Kadri and Weegar IMO.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Dom Luszczyszyn at the Athletic actually has Markstrom ranked 5th in the Vezina race so far. He blames the save pct on an extremely porous defence in front of him. So maybe we’re underrating Markstom and overrating Andersson, Weegar, Hanifin, and Tanev.

Luszczyszyn’s model also has Bedard at 9th for the Calder. So there’s that.

So his model probably sucks then if he has Bedard at 9th for the Calder.

[Inferno]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

So his model probably sucks then if he has Bedard at 9th for the Calder.

They're two completely different models.

The problem with his player one is he's just making an offensive rating and defensive rating and rating the players by the sum. You can get away with being mediocre defensively and still win the Calder if you score enough points.

[browna]

Originally Posted by Parallex

It's the only one worth using IMO... he's a goalie so a stat that demonstrates the percentage of shots that he prevents from becoming goals against is all you really need to know. A goal against is a goal against regardless of whether it comes off a 5 alarm chance or off a softie.

Don't follow the advanced stats as much, but "goals saved above expected" sounds reasonablly accurate.

https://www.thescore.com/nhl/news/27...actured-finger

Markstrom has posted an .896 save percentage and a 2.94 goals against average in 16 games this season. His numbers below the surface are more impressive, as he ranks fifth among NHL goalies with 10.47 goals saved above expected, per Evolving-Hockey.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Inferno

They're two completely different models.

The problem with his player one is he's just making an offensive rating and defensive rating and rating the players by the sum. You can get away with being mediocre defensively and still win the Calder if you score enough points.

And the further problem with that is that defensive ratings for individual players are often out to lunch. Measuring the defensive contribution of an individual skater is the toughest analytical problem in hockey. Some progress has been made, but I don't believe anyone has solved it yet.