[PGT] Flames 5 Ducks 1

[MrMike]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Fans have clamored for different players as captain over the years. Tkachuk was a super trendy choice for a while.

Backlund playing great, no doubt. Is he a leader or a follower? Kind of hard to tell from the outside IMO.

Pretty sure Sutter sees himself as the captain of this team.

[Burning Beard]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

I agree this inconsistency theme is being overused at times.. Not many blowouts this season and a good number of players have been solid all season.

It’s the goalies and the two big ticket guys who signed massive contracts before playing a game for the team that have lacked in that department.

Yeah it feels like some people are trying to assign blame anywhere else but your last sentence sums up the season pretty accurately.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Burning Beard

Yeah it feels like some people are trying to assign blame anywhere else but your last sentence sums up the season pretty accurately.

Yeah I think this team shows up 90% of the time.

I don't see a lack of effort from almost anyone (Kadri maybe at times?). They lack the finish (not saying luck) and the execution to do as well as they likely should be doing given the consistency.

[Mr.Coffee]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Yeah I think this team shows up 90% of the time.

I don't see a lack of effort from almost anyone (Kadri maybe at times?). They lack the finish (not saying luck) and the execution to do as well as they likely should be doing given the consistency.

Mangiapane?

Lindholm?

Huberdeau?

Dube?

Lucic?

Really?

[Burning Beard]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Yeah I think this team shows up 90% of the time.

I don't see a lack of effort from almost anyone (Kadri maybe at times?). They lack the finish (not saying luck) and the execution to do as well as they likely should be doing given the consistency.

Very frustrating season to watch. I can't imagine playing through it.

[Hockey_Ninja]

It’s always nice to see that they can win in Anaheim again

[Mr.Coffee]

I’m trying to wrap my head around the thought experiment that effort wasn’t lukewarm all year- at best.

So what’s the rationale then for where they are? Here are the remaining options:

- they just aren’t good (this defies previous performances from about 90% of the team)
- just bad luck (I mean… really?)
- the strategy was terrible

When you guys see people floating around, you don’t think that’s related to effort? Or do you just not look for that type of thing, or just aren’t seeing it? Like, these are professional athletes.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

Mangiapane?

Lindholm?

Huberdeau?

Dube?

Lucic?

Really?

Work ethic? Yeah they're fine.

Mangiapane and Dube bust a hump every night. I think Huberdeau is working too hard to be honest.

Lucic has nothing left but I wouldn't question effort.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

I’m trying to wrap my head around the thought experiment that effort wasn’t lukewarm all year- at best.

So what’s the rationale then for where they are? Here are the remaining options:

- they just aren’t good (this defies previous performances from about 90% of the team)
- just bad luck (I mean… really?)
- the strategy was terrible

When you guys see people floating around, you don’t think that’s related to effort? Or do you just not look for that type of thing, or just aren’t seeing it? Like, these are professional athletes.

Are you assuming you have the ability to see things others can't? Is this "do you watch the games?" time again?

I have seen one player in particular dogging it at times this season. Not the whole team.

[81MC]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

I’m trying to wrap my head around the thought experiment that effort wasn’t lukewarm all year- at best.

So what’s the rationale then for where they are? Here are the remaining options:

- they just aren’t good (this defies previous performances from about 90% of the team)
- just bad luck (I mean… really?)
- the strategy was terrible

When you guys see people floating around, you don’t think that’s related to effort? Or do you just not look for that type of thing, or just aren’t seeing it? Like, these are professional athletes.

Lead the league in one goal games
Lead the league in posts
2nd in S/GP
30th in SA/GP
26th in SV%

There are more than a handful of games where an inch was the difference between a win and a loss. Combine that with the games where goaltending was undeniably subpar. If either of those two things corrected to the mean, the team would be comfortably in a playoff spot.

[Flame On]

I didn't get a gif up last night. With the three of Preds, Jests and us, I thought a Three's Company one might suit.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

I’m trying to wrap my head around the thought experiment that effort wasn’t lukewarm all year- at best.

So what’s the rationale then for where they are? Here are the remaining options:

- they just aren’t good (this defies previous performances from about 90% of the team)
- just bad luck (I mean… really?)
- the strategy was terrible

When you guys see people floating around, you don’t think that’s related to effort? Or do you just not look for that type of thing, or just aren’t seeing it? Like, these are professional athletes.

If you follow any team - every team - you will see some guys having off nights, and looking like the effort isn't there. The question is: is there more of that on this team than most teams? Absolutely not, IMO. In fact, I would argue the opposite - the Flames have shown more effort and hustle than most teams, throughout the season.

Effort is just about the only thing that hasn't been a problem.

[Paulie Walnuts]

I am not sure how much I buy #3 in xGF

Yes the games are consistent but the results and the extra is always inconsistent.

A team ranked #1 in shots #2 in perimeter shots, 13th in slot shots and 21st in inner slot shots and rated 30th with the percentage of shots from the slot does not tell me they should be #3 in xGF. I think the model needs revamping.

Volume is there quality is not and that seems to be a theme with the Sutter teams, they have the talent so why is it that it is not happening?

I think they do move with pace through the zones when they can but when people say plodding and slow I think those stats show why, shooting to shoot and get whistles and faceoffs to slow the game down.

[D as in David]

Originally Posted by MrMike

Pretty sure Sutter sees himself as the captain of this team.

One that doesn't (reportedly) talk to the players.

[Mr.Coffee]

Originally Posted by 81MC

Lead the league in one goal games
Lead the league in posts
2nd in S/GP
30th in SA/GP
26th in SV%

There are more than a handful of games where an inch was the difference between a win and a loss. Combine that with the games where goaltending was undeniably subpar. If either of those two things corrected to the mean, the team would be comfortably in a playoff spot.

So, just bad luck then?

[Mr.Coffee]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

If you follow any team - every team - you will see some guys having off nights, and looking like the effort isn't there. The question is: is there more of that on this team than most teams? Absolutely not, IMO. In fact, I would argue the opposite - the Flames have shown more effort and hustle than most teams, throughout the season.

Effort is just about the only thing that hasn't been a problem.

Strongly disagree and we can just leave it at that because it’s objective.

[Bingo]

I think sometimes fans want to blame effort as it gives them more of a target for anger.

A team that lacks the offensive skill to out score an off year from their goaltenders doesn't have that same bull's eye to attack.

[HighLifeMan]

In a league where Seattle, LA, and Dallas are top 10 in goals for I really struggle to believe that this team lacks the talent or skill to do so.

I really don't think effort is the issue either. This team is playing exactly how it's being asked to.

[JohnnyB]

Sutter has been accurate all along in saying that the team needs big players to step up and make the big plays. Can't fault guys who are supposed to be secondary scoring and are having career seasons. Along with bad goaltending, it's the top players that have been the ones sinking the ship.

Last year the team had two players in the top 8 of the league for points. The team took off in the second half when the top two players got going at an incredible scoring pace.

This year, there have been no top-end performances from top-end players. The team's top player is 48th. The big new signings don't even make the top 100.

Huberdeau and Kadri combined may finish with less points than Gaudreau had last year.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

I am not sure how much I buy #3 in xGF

Yes the games are consistent but the results and the extra is always inconsistent.

A team ranked #1 in shots #2 in perimeter shots, 13th in slot shots and 21st in inner slot shots and rated 30th with the percentage of shots from the slot does not tell me they should be #3 in xGF. I think the model needs revamping.

Volume is there quality is not and that seems to be a theme with the Sutter teams, they have the talent so why is it that it is not happening?

I think they do move with pace through the zones when they can but when people say plodding and slow I think those stats show why, shooting to shoot and get whistles and faceoffs to slow the game down.

I think it's certainly possible that the model is over valuing the low and medium danger shot. Honestly makes sense to me from what I'm seeing.

But to what degree?

Does the third ranked team become the 10th ranked team? If so it doesn't really change the argument much does it?

Getting chances, not converting.