Are the Flames BETTER than they were in 2021-22?

[Goriders]

They are a playoff team now. Not a no hit regular season team.

Finally.

[Kipper_3434]

The team no longer has 2 of their slowest players in Monohan and Tkachuck. Hubedeau is no burner, though, I'm excited to see the pace this team will perform at under Sutter. .

Tbh I'm not expecting much out of Kadri, early on. He played a lot of hockey this spring and may not be fully conditioned.

[EN FUEGO]

I like this team a lot. Like any roster, we'll see what they actually do on the ice, but think they will be a tough group to beat. Gritty and defensive bunch who can still light the lamp.

[Elkyiv]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

He wasn’t

But last years playoffs does not elevate a 32 year old with a career high 85pts to >> then a 24 year old with a 100 pt season

even if you exclude Kadri's last year, he's still a better performer in the post season:

GP 36
G 12
A 17
P 29
+8

GP 12
G 4
A 6
Pts 10
-6

[djsFlames]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

He wasn’t

But last years playoffs does not elevate a 32 year old with a career high 85pts to >> then a 24 year old with a 100 pt season

*31 year old
*87 points (in 71 gp)
**did it with secondary players.

Why do people continue to skew and round numbers when trying to argue for pessimism? At least use the real f'n numbers, man.

With Johnny and Lindy you don't think Nazem also pots over 100? If he plays 82 this past season he puts up roughly the same total as Tkachuk anyways. Was on pace for a little over 100 points. And was doing it with less cushy linemates that wouldn't bounce pucks in off his butt.

Age doesn't detract from what a player is currently. And Kadri is presently a great player and pest that plays a more important position than Tkachuk.

Does anybody really believe MT will continue elevating his game without a Gaudreau/Huberdeau caliber playmaker?

I think anybody that has watched him for the last 6 seasons has a strong inkling that the guy has a modest drop off in production coming.

[dammage79]

Will they be better this upcoming season? My guess is no. But they won't finish behind by much.

Season 2 of this core is when push comes to shove. And we will know before hand if Sutter signs on for another year or two.

[midniteowl]

Kadri is not better than Tkachuk

Kadri...... >> Tkachuk --> based on last playoff

[Sofa GM]

Originally Posted by dammage79

Will they be better this upcoming season? My guess is no. But they won't finish behind by much.

Season 2 of this core is when push comes to shove. And we will know before hand if Sutter signs on for another year or two.

It will be much closer, think the Knights bounce back under Cassidy and the Ducks and Kings will be improved

I see Knights, Flames, Kings, Ducks for the top Pacific teams,….. Stars, Jets, Canucks, Oilers battle for wildcard

[Jason14h]

Originally Posted by djsFlames

*31 year old
*87 points (in 71 gp)
**did it with secondary players.

Why do people continue to skew and round numbers when trying to argue for pessimism? At least use the real f'n numbers, man.

With Johnny and Lindy you don't think Nazem also pots over 100? If he plays 82 this past season he puts up roughly the same total as Tkachuk anyways. Was on pace for a little over 100 points. And was doing it with less cushy linemates that wouldn't bounce pucks in off his butt.

Age doesn't detract from what a player is currently. And Kadri is presently a great player and pest that plays a more important position than Tkachuk.

Does anybody really believe MT will continue elevating his game without a Gaudreau/Huberdeau caliber playmaker?

I think anybody that has watched him for the last 6 seasons has a strong inkling that the guy has a modest drop off in production coming.

Skew Numbers?

It's called rounding. Guess what, MT actually got 104 pts not the 100 i said. So I actually gave Kadri a bonus 2 pts.

Kadri was born at the start of Oct. Meaning he will be 32 on opening night.

Yeah I totally skewed the stats.

And I never argued for pessimism. I like the deal and the current Flames. But to say Kadri is >> MT is beyond insanity.

Florida could have signed Kadri for free and traded JH or Weegar for assets if they wanted. Instead they packaged both ++ for MT.

Theres nothing wrong with being excited for a new player. But let's not go full crazy and start claiming a player who has ONE season over 61 pts in his 12 year career is >> then a 24 year old player who has two season already better then 61 pts plus one at 61 points, and who grades very positively on defensive advanced stats.

It's a stretch to say they are even for this upcoming season. That's not a knock on Kadri. There's a reason we got 4 great assets for MT

[Jason14h]

Originally Posted by midniteowl

Kadri...... >> Tkachuk --> based on last playoff

Kadri got 16pts in 15 games . MT got got 10 in 12. Not a massive difference.

There may be 2 people on this planet who think Kadri is >> then MT, and apparently they are both on this board at this time

[djsFlames]

Not last season solely.

Kadri's entire body of work in the playoffs is better than Tkachuk's entire body of work in the playoffs.

Tkachuk did nothing against the Oilers except for the first period and change of the series when the whole team was running on adrenaline.

Tkachuk had a couple phantom assists in the Dallas series that hardly any one noticed because it was a result of playing with Lindy and Johnny taking the team on their backs in game 4/5 and didn't find twine until game 7 after everybody was piling on him for being near-useless overall.

Kadri was actually containing McDavid and scoring GWGs for the Avs.

Both players hurt their hands. Tkachuk turned into a phantom. Kadri turned an 8 week recovery into 13 days and directly contributed to his team hoisting the cup immediately after.

Yes. If we're trying to win, I'm entrusting Kadri to do a better job of helping lead us there than Tkachuk and feeling rather good about it.

[Jason14h]

Originally Posted by djsFlames

Not last season solely.

Kadri's entire body of work in the playoffs is better than Tkachuk's entire body of work in the playoffs.

Tkachuk did nothing against the Oilers except for the first period and change of the series when the whole team was running on adrenaline.

Tkachuk had a couple phantom assists in the Dallas series that hardly any one noticed and didn't find twine until game 7 after everybody was piling on him for being near-useless overall.

Kadri was actually containing McDavid and scoring GWGs for the Avs.

Both players hurt their hands. Tkachuk turned into a phantom. Kadri turned an 8 week recovery into 13 days and directly contributed to his team hoisting the cup immediately after.

Yes. If we're trying to win, I'm entrusting Kadri to do a better job of helping lead us there than Tkachuk and feeling rather good about it.

That's a logical and fair assessment. For 1 or 2 playoff runs I could be easily convinced over a beer or 2.

That's not the same as Kadri is >> then MT though

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

Kadri got 16pts in 15 games . MT got got 10 in 12. Not a massive difference.

There may be 2 people on this planet who think Kadri is >> then MT, and apparently they are both on this board at this time

he was obviously better than him last playoffs

how many SCF OT winners did Tkachuk score? he lit up the Oilers in one river hockey game and then disappeared the rest of the series

Tkachuk was also on a top line with Gaudreau and Lindholm not in a shutdown role like Kadri was

[djsFlames]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

That's a logical and fair assessment. For 1 or 2 playoff runs I could be easily convinced over a beer or 2.

That's not the same as Kadri is >> then MT though

Well at this point I'm here for playoffs success, not regular season point totals.

We're beyond the point of just trying to make the dance and having productive players. We've seen that now. It's cool, but doesn't mean a lot and is quickly forgotten. That's pretty secondary when you're actually a good and established team.

I'd trade epic 100 point career seasons for a couple 4 round runs every day of the week.

If you want to use those barometers to deem a player better then by all means knock yourself out.

For me, the success will be measured by the length of our season beyond April. If Kadri does better there, then imo he was better for the Flames.

[midniteowl]

There may be 2 people on this planet who think Kadri is >> then MT, and apparently they are both on this board at this time

That's not the same as Kadri is >> then MT though

Jesus Christ are you just bickering for the sake of bickering? Read this again!

Originally Posted by midniteowl

This is the way I see it...


Huberdeau > Gaudreau --> based on size
Kadri...... >> Tkachuk --> based on last playoff
Weegar >>> Gudbranson
Pelletier.. >> 2021 Monahan

[Jason14h]

Originally Posted by midniteowl

Jesus Christ are you just bickering for the sake of bickering? Read this again!

Yes the person arguing the MT isn't << then Kadri is bickering for the sake of bickering.

Honestly, the most ardent, diehard Flames fans on the planet still don't believe in any word that Kadri >> then MT

If you want to argue Kadri had shown to be a better playoff performer then MT and therefor you prefer him for next year thats one thing.

But >> insinuates he is not just better, but WAY better.

Players that are >> would be a very short list, starting with McDavid and Mckinnon, and ending in Hedman and Makar. and even the >> is arguable there.

But yes if we are basing it on one playoffs, where Kadri got 6 more points in 2 extra games, Kadri is apparently prime Wayne Gretzky now that he is a Calgary Flame and MT is the worst playoff player the Flames have ever had.

I also love that Pelletier is also a >> then Monahan. I suppose Monahan didn't play so he's for sure a playoff zero, but you are giving a player that hasn't even made the team a >> already (Not discounting Pelletier needs to replace a player who actually played in the playoffs)

It's fine to be excited for new players, but let's not go full crazy that everyone who played for us is now garbage and we've upgrade X 2. Heck, we were very good last year to start with

[djsFlames]

I gave Kadri a slight ">" to Tkachuk.

Does not account for age, potential, whatever, that some are arguing, but what they have shown to this point given the situations each has played in.

I think what Kadri has done is a little more impressive.

Tkachuk has been a great complimentary player, but still a guy that rides shotgun offensively. Even with Backlund, it was arguably Backlund driving that line.

But ultimately playoff performance is what tips the scales.

Can Tkachuk show that he can thrive in Florida too and take a step in the post-season? Sure. But that's TBD.

Kadri just played a vital role in Colorado lifting the cup. And he may have been the difference between them winning that series and being edged in 6 or 7. That trumps nice totals playing on the most dominant line in hockey for me.

[dino7c]

Its impossible to say but I think Kadri would have put up MASSIVE numbers with Guadreau and Linholm

Tkachuk had a great season but he also won the linemate lottery

[Infinit47]

In general I think you are always better to overpay a centre versus a winger, and likely better to overpay a dman than a winger as well.

To me when a centre/Dman isn't scoring they can still have a huge impact on the game. Some wingers can do that (see Mark Stone), but it's usually centres and Dmen who win games away from the scoresheet. I think the Flames will be better off having shifted money from wing to centre, and adding more puck movement on the back end.

Hard to say how it will all shake out, but I have a difficult time seeing this Kadri signing as hurting the team.

[Plett Me Tell You]

I think we will be missing the flash of blow out games with sexy goals scored after game winners - but I’ll trade that for the best on paper team since 04 - Drop yer ****s and pull up yer socks, we gots work to do!