A friendly reminder to Flames fans everywhere: the team is in first in the West

[Duffalufagus]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

Then you underrate Valimaki IMO. Flames see him as a future core player. He's probably about as untouchable as anybody on the Flames. Top pairing upside. You don't trade young players like that. It's unclear whether he or Hanifin ends up the better player.

Some people apparently massively underrate Valimaki. I'm surprised anybody would be fine with trading him at all.

I’m super high on valimaki’s prospects. Glad to have him (and cheap for a couple of years). But I think you underestimate Stone. Guy is an established elite two way ppg player on A dog #### team. He is impact. Sure thing. And in his prime. Way more valuable than Valimaki

[868904]

Originally Posted by Duffalufagus

Several teams did not spend what I would call big assets. SJ/Nash/Peg got value imo.

Nashville traded Fiala and Hartman. That's the equivalent of trading Jankowski and Bennett. Would you rather have 30 plus Koivu and Simmonds instead of Janko and Benny?

Winnipeg traded their 1st and Lemieux who is probably on par with Dube.

[Itse]

Treliving has PREVIOUSLY spent the assets that HAVE ALREADY created the best team in the west.

Other teams are NOW spending assets they HOPE WILL make their team as good as ours.

We're still a team others are looking up to.
We're still a reason they were all buyers, not the other way around.

We're still best in the west until the standings or playoffs say otherwise.

As I said in another thread:

Bring it. The cup was never going to come easy.

[Duffalufagus]

Originally Posted by 868904

Nashville traded Fiala and Hartman. That's the equivalent of trading Jankowski and Bennett. Would you rather have 30 plus Koivu and Simmonds instead of Janko and Benny?

Winnipeg traded their 1st and Lemieux who is probably on par with Dube.

Maybe I’m a homer but Janko and Bennett are better

[stemit14]

Originally Posted by Duffalufagus

Several teams did not spend what I would call big assets. SJ/Nash/Peg got value imo.

I agree. They did get value. But I also think they spent what I consider limited assets on rentals (except for Granlund). I doubt those teams will be able to re-sign those players that they acquired. And both San Jose and Winnipeg are facing big cap-crunches this season if they plan on keeping their core together.

San Jose has virtually spent all their picks and quality prospects in the last two years and could still get bounced in the first round facing Vegas. Especially with their goaltending.

Not saying these teams didn’t get decent value in some cases... But they did spend virtually all they had left to spend in the near future. The flames are still a powerhouse in the West and they have currency to use at the draft, free agency, and trade deadline next year. At which point the flames could feasibly go after a player like Hall.

Treliving could potentially package a late first round pick (hopefully 31st overall) + Brodie into a top 15 pick in the draft... getting a potential impact player that’s cost-controlled for years to come.


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[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Duffalufagus

Several teams did not spend what I would call big assets. SJ/Nash/Peg got value imo.

Yeah really it's not that bad long term (Sharks excluded) for the other teams that did make moves today but IMO they were at stages where they were better positioned or needed to make these deals.

Nashville did good with Granlund deal but don't think Simmonds is actually a huge upgrade on Hartman at this stage. Didn't move Tolvanen, Fabbro, or their 1st so still have their top prospects and picks moving forward and personally think they will be a player for Duchene come July 1.

Winnipeg Did okay with a 1st and Lemieux for Hayes. Two years in a row with no 1st round picks now though and outside of Vesalainen most of their prospect depth has graduated (Stanley looks okay but not great).

Lots of major RFAs/UFAs after this season though so for them really this year and last year is the time to go for it since they probably can't afford them all- probably will re-coup some picks by moving an RFA or two in the offseason.

San Jose is the team that really needed to go all in for this season and did so. They have traded their 2016 1st, 2017 1st, 2019 1st, 2020 1st, 2019 2nd, 2020 3rd. So having a single first rounder over a 5 year period is tough for a team.

But with Pavelski, Thornton, Nyquist, Donskoi, & Karlsson all as UFAs you could argue that this is the year they needed to go for it. Issue is going to be goaltending if they run into Vegas round 1 - as Vegas holds the advantage there.

Vegas will be the team the Flames still have to worry about long term. This was the team that could handle trading for Stone and giving him the big contract but even they have burned assets lately but are able to do so because teams flubbed up the expansion draft so bad.

They have Glass, Hague, and Leschyshyn still as top prospects. They have traded their 2018 1st (Tatar), Suzuki (Pacioretty), and Brannstrom (Stone) now though. Plus still have all their 1sts moving forward, 2 extra 3rds this year, and and extra 2nd next year.

With William Karlsson as their only major RFA/UFA coming up too they are positioned really well moving forward. Plus I still think they move some pieces out at the draft and go hard at Erik Karlsson too.

So for the Flames really the key is just to keep winning your games and keep your cushion at the top of the division. You don't have to go through all 4 teams, so let Vegas/San Jose and Winnipeg/Nashville/St.Louis take care of each other first and just worry about them when you get to them.

Those 4 teams may feel like the big winners today but there is a decent chance that 2 of the 4 could be knocked out in the first round - then they likely won't be as excited.

[Camronius]

"It's a process"

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Yeah really it's not that bad long term (Sharks excluded) for the other teams that did make moves today but IMO they were at stages where they were better positioned or needed to make these deals.

Nashville did good with Granlund deal but don't think Simmonds is actually a huge upgrade on Hartman at this stage. Didn't move Tolvanen, Fabbro, or their 1st so still have their top prospects and picks moving forward and personally think they will be a player for Duchene come July 1.

Winnipeg Did okay with a 1st and Lemieux for Hayes. Two years in a row with no 1st round picks now though and outside of Vesalainen most of their prospect depth has graduated (Stanley looks okay but not great).

Lots of major RFAs/UFAs after this season though so for them really this year and last year is the time to go for it since they probably can't afford them all- probably will re-coup some picks by moving an RFA or two in the offseason.

San Jose is the team that really needed to go all in for this season and did so. They have traded their 2016 1st, 2017 1st, 2019 1st, 2020 1st, 2019 2nd, 2020 3rd. So having a single first rounder over a 5 year period is tough for a team.

But with Pavelski, Thornton, Nyquist, Donskoi, & Karlsson all as UFAs you could argue that this is the year they needed to go for it.

Vegas will be the team the Flames still have to worry about long term. This was the team that could handle trading for Stone and giving him the big contract but even they have burned assets lately but are able to do so.

They have Glass, Hague, and Leschyshyn still as top prospects. They have traded their 2018 1st (Tatar), Suzuki (Pacioretty), and Brannstrom (Stone) now though. Plus still have all their 1sts moving forward, 2 extra 3rds this year, and and extra 2nd next year.

With Karlsson as their only major RFA/UFA coming up too they are positioned really well moving forward.

So for the Flames really the key is just to keep winning your games and keep your cushion at the top of the division. You don't have to go through all 4 teams, so let Vegas/San Jose and Winnipeg/Nashville/St.Louis take care of each other first and just worry about them when you get to them.

Those 4 teams may feel like the big winners today but their is a decent chance that 2 of the 4 could be knocked out in the first round - then they likely won't be as excited.

Decent chance? If the Flames can finish first, it's guaranteed. The first round would see:

SJS vs VGK
NAS vs STL
WPG vs DAL

Three of those 6 would be gone.

[Mattman]

I am glad Brad Treliving didn't pull the trigger "because he felt the need to do something"

If anything this will be positive to our group of players to hear from their General Manager that he believes in them to succeed. We are in a great situation here, and there really is no player on this team who could be considered a weak link.

And I get it, everyone loves trades, who doesn't?
Hypothetical question for all the people who are upset that BT did not make a big splash today....
Would you be more or less upset if Treliving ended up getting fleeced for a rental player as compared to standing by and not giving in to the hype?

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Decent chance? If the Flames can finish first, it's guaranteed. The first round would see:

SJS vs VGK
NAS vs STL
WPG vs DAL

Three of those 6 would be gone.

I said a decent chance that 2 out of the 4 I listed get knocked out. So if VGK, NAS, WPG all win their series that you listed then it's just 1 out of 4 knocked out - so not guaranteed 2 out of 4.

As long as Flames stay in first though it's guaranteed that one of SJS or VGK go home first round and that could really sting for one of those teams - especially San Jose.

Vegas still has a pretty open window after this season but I feel like this is probably San Jose's last best shot. And now if the standings stay as they are they most likely would have to go through Vegas, Calgary, Nashville/Winnipeg, & Tampa to win.

Ouch.

[Beninho]

Originally Posted by Duffalufagus

I’m super high on valimaki’s prospects. Glad to have him (and cheap for a couple of years). But I think you underestimate Stone. Guy is an established elite two way ppg player on A dog #### team. He is impact. Sure thing. And in his prime. Way more valuable than Valimaki

I mean Montour just got the Ducks a first round pick plus an NHLer so to say a possible top pairing Dman won’t hold more value than Stone in 3-4 years time is non-sense. Look at Edmonton, getting top pairing Dmen is hard, that’s why you don’t trade prospects who have the chance to become one. Top pairing Dmen are without a doubt the hardest for teams to produce, we’ve been fortunate with Gio and less so with goaltending but look around the league and see how many teams desperately need a true top end Dman. The team also has Gaudreau and Monahan that are going to need fat raises in 3-4 years time if the flames want to retain them plus Tkachuk this offseason, plus what ever other raises the flames will have to give out which is the result of being a top team. Trading a controllable high end asset in Valimaki for a $9.5 million player very much complicates things and changes the composition of our team completely. Frankly, it’s not a move you make in the first year of being good.


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[Beninho]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Yeah really it's not that bad long term (Sharks excluded) for the other teams that did make moves today but IMO they were at stages where they were better positioned or needed to make these deals.

Nashville did good with Granlund deal but don't think Simmonds is actually a huge upgrade on Hartman at this stage. Didn't move Tolvanen, Fabbro, or their 1st so still have their top prospects and picks moving forward and personally think they will be a player for Duchene come July 1.

Winnipeg Did okay with a 1st and Lemieux for Hayes. Two years in a row with no 1st round picks now though and outside of Vesalainen most of their prospect depth has graduated (Stanley looks okay but not great).

Lots of major RFAs/UFAs after this season though so for them really this year and last year is the time to go for it since they probably can't afford them all- probably will re-coup some picks by moving an RFA or two in the offseason.

San Jose is the team that really needed to go all in for this season and did so. They have traded their 2016 1st, 2017 1st, 2019 1st, 2020 1st, 2019 2nd, 2020 3rd. So having a single first rounder over a 5 year period is tough for a team.

But with Pavelski, Thornton, Nyquist, Donskoi, & Karlsson all as UFAs you could argue that this is the year they needed to go for it. Issue is going to be goaltending if they run into Vegas round 1 - as Vegas holds the advantage there.

Vegas will be the team the Flames still have to worry about long term. This was the team that could handle trading for Stone and giving him the big contract but even they have burned assets lately but are able to do so because teams flubbed up the expansion draft so bad.

They have Glass, Hague, and Leschyshyn still as top prospects. They have traded their 2018 1st (Tatar), Suzuki (Pacioretty), and Brannstrom (Stone) now though. Plus still have all their 1sts moving forward, 2 extra 3rds this year, and and extra 2nd next year.

With William Karlsson as their only major RFA/UFA coming up too they are positioned really well moving forward. Plus I still think they move some pieces out at the draft and go hard at Erik Karlsson too.

So for the Flames really the key is just to keep winning your games and keep your cushion at the top of the division. You don't have to go through all 4 teams, so let Vegas/San Jose and Winnipeg/Nashville/St.Louis take care of each other first and just worry about them when you get to them.

Those 4 teams may feel like the big winners today but there is a decent chance that 2 of the 4 could be knocked out in the first round - then they likely won't be as excited.

Great analysis


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[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Yeah really it's not that bad long term (Sharks excluded) for the other teams that did make moves today but IMO they were at stages where they were better positioned or needed to make these deals.

Nashville did good with Granlund deal but don't think Simmonds is actually a huge upgrade on Hartman at this stage. Didn't move Tolvanen, Fabbro, or their 1st so still have their top prospects and picks moving forward and personally think they will be a player for Duchene come July 1.

Winnipeg Did okay with a 1st and Lemieux for Hayes. Two years in a row with no 1st round picks now though and outside of Vesalainen most of their prospect depth has graduated (Stanley looks okay but not great).

Lots of major RFAs/UFAs after this season though so for them really this year and last year is the time to go for it since they probably can't afford them all- probably will re-coup some picks by moving an RFA or two in the offseason.

San Jose is the team that really needed to go all in for this season and did so. They have traded their 2016 1st, 2017 1st, 2019 1st, 2020 1st, 2019 2nd, 2020 3rd. So having a single first rounder over a 5 year period is tough for a team.

But with Pavelski, Thornton, Nyquist, Donskoi, & Karlsson all as UFAs you could argue that this is the year they needed to go for it.

Vegas will be the team the Flames still have to worry about long term. This was the team that could handle trading for Stone and giving him the big contract but even they have burned assets lately but are able to do so.

They have Glass, Hague, and Leschyshyn still as top prospects. They have traded their 2018 1st (Tatar), Suzuki (Pacioretty), and Brannstrom (Stone) now though. Plus still have all their 1sts moving forward, 2 extra 3rds this year, and and extra 2nd next year.

With William Karlsson as their only major RFA/UFA coming up too they are positioned really well moving forward. Plus I still think they move some pieces out at the draft and go hard at Erik Karlsson too.

So for the Flames really the key is just to keep winning your games and keep your cushion at the top of the division. You don't have to go through all 4 teams, so let Vegas/San Jose and Winnipeg/Nashville/St.Louis take care of each other first and just worry about them when you get to them.

Those 4 teams may feel like the big winners today but their is a decent chance that 2 of the 4 could be knocked out in the first round - then they likely won't be as excited.

I think Vegas will be in tough cap wise. Karlsson is the only big name but they have roster spots to fill - a backup goalie (Subban or someone else), they have to decide on Bellemare, re-sign Nosek, etc. Karlsson has arb rights as well. I also think Patches and Fleury's contracts are going to become more and more anchorlike. I think with Stone but before all that needs to be done, they are at around $75M.

[Fire]

I didn't think Treliving would trade Valimaki for a signed Stone and I'm happy to see I was right. Would have been terrible asset management. Plus Stone probably would have asked for $10.5 from the Flames because of the tax differences.

This is basically what I was hoping the Flames would do today. So very happy and relieved.

[Maritime Q-Scout]

I think a day like today makes us realize how difficult a job being an NHL General Manager is.

Cap space, contracts expiring at the end of the season, draft, playoffs, roster relative to others, it is tough to juggle.

I have little doubt that Treliving did his homework with his team, then did up a plan of what he's willing to part with and the type of return each asset would fetch.

He went into today with that plan and stuck to it.

That, ladies and gentlemen, is how you win.

If you let the pressure cloud your plan, your clairvoyant preparation, then you'll lose.

Now this isn't a 100% of the time thing, but it is a 95% of the time thing. I like to play the odds.

[Stay Golden]

The Flames aren't in first in the West by fluke and lack of depth.
The Stone price was far too high trade wise and more importantly what LV is paying him now on a new extension there is no way i would want to see the Flames paying Stone 9.5 mil per meanwhile Johnny, Monahan and Lindstrom are all under 7. That would have thrown the team off balance and Tkachuk would be expecting about the same.

[Dion]

https://twitter.com/user/status/1100134217311309826

[spuzzum]

Originally Posted by Stay Golden

The Flames aren't in first in the West by fluke and lack of depth.
The Stone price was far too high trade wise and more importantly what LV is paying him now on a new extension there is no way i would want to see the Flames paying Stone 9.5 mil per meanwhile Johnny, Monahan and Lindstrom are all under 7. That would have thrown the team off balance and Tkachuk would be expecting about the same.

We have a young core that has had a great season to date. The Flames were predicted to be in the playoff rush and we're certainly exceeding those expectations.

This team with this young core is far from being an annual top 3 contender 3/4ths through this first successful season. Who knows if this is a successfully built core for long playoff runs. Something I'm certainly excited to see and why sports is so intriguing.

Future indeed looks bright - but let's not put the cart before the horse.

[Strange Brew]

I don’t know that Neal coming back will be like a deadline acquisition. He has missed what 5 games this year? Stone maybe can be viewed that way.

[DoubleK]

Scorpion, are you surprised that the Devils didn't move Palmieri?