[PGT] Flames lose 4-1 to the Hawks

[Rick M.]

Some random observations. Johnny has gotten cold the last few games and the team misses his spark but it is unreasonable for us to expect one player to carry the team. Gio and Wideman can't hit the net this year and it is costing us a fair bit of offense. In Gio's case he looks like he is avoiding shooting which makes me think that something is physically wrong with him. I think the defense has to challenge the great puck moving teams like the Hawks or you end up watching their brilliance at your expense. Sitting back and trying to block shots is proving to be a failure as a defensive system. That Panarin is looking great; too bad he chose the Hawks over the Flames as he'd look great with Bennett.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by T@T

Always hated Hartley as our coach and had to bite my tongue as he won coach of the year, I even disliked him when he won a cup as a coach as I felt he was just lucky.

After reading this some might think I'll backtrack/change my mind and start supporting him now...think again, he's still a bum and I can't stand him as a coach.

I've never been a fan myself as he has no defensive system and I believe he's a short shelf life coach. Despite my feelings I can't deny he had brilliant season last year motivating a young team. However you need more than just motivation in this day and age year in and year out. You need good structure and this team is too much of a one trick pony trying to base everything on transition and not enough on defensive zone play. Just way too many fire drills and there's too much talent on defense for them to be playing this bad. He's going to need to change some of his philosophies or this job will get away from him fast.

[flambers]

Tough game, Flames played well. Simply they made mistakes and the mistakes were all goals.

Ramo played well, Flames forward are just not generating very many scoring chances...

Tough to win this way.

[cannon7]

I don't think I was alone in hoping that Treliving would take a wait-and-see approach with Gio. We weren't all blinded by his amazing 14-15 season. That kind of injury is a potential career killer and appears to have hampered Gio greatly.

[Hockey_Ninja]

Originally Posted by Rick M.

Some random observations. Johnny has gotten cold the last few games and the team misses his spark but it is unreasonable for us to expect one player to carry the team. Gio and Wideman can't hit the net this year and it is costing us a fair bit of offense. In Gio's case he looks like he is avoiding shooting which makes me think that something is physically wrong with him. I think the defense has to challenge the great puck moving teams like the Hawks or you end up watching their brilliance at your expense. Sitting back and trying to block shots is proving to be a failure as a defensive system. That Panarin is looking great; too bad he chose the Hawks over the Flames as he'd look great with Bennett.

He would've gotten a couple points last night if everyone wasn't so snake bitten.

[heep223]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

Too easy to blame the coach. What do you expect him to do?

Are you serious?

Motivate the players differently. Break up lines / pairings. Change up systems. Change up special teams units. Change up special teams strategy. Bench people. Change ice time. Change the practice routine.

I'm sure he's trying one or all of the above in different ways, but it's silly to imply that he can't do anything to try to get the team back on track.

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by heep223

Are you serious?

Motivate the players differently. Break up lines / pairings. Change up systems. Change up special teams units. Change up special teams strategy. Bench people. Change ice time. Change the practice routine.

I'm sure he's trying one or all of the above in different ways, but it's silly to imply that he can't do anything to try to get the team back on track.

Most of it falls on the players. Coaches get far too much of the blame in these situations

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

Most of it falls on the players. Coaches get far too much of the blame in these situations

He got the credit last year with the Jack Adams so yes he deserves some blame. This team was never prepared from day one of preseason and IMO a lot of that has to fall on the coaches. There is no doubt the goaltenders and defensemen have not played well but it's a coaches job to curtail things and it just seems like Hartley's had no answer. He's not benching players like last year as IMO he's in a job preservation mode, afraid to lose the team.

[Armchair Quarterback]

Still gunna support these guys no matter what, although last night was ugly. Could have been 7-1 as far as I'm concerned.

The Flames seem mentally soft. They came out flat-footed in the first and were lucky to come out of there 0-0, then it all fell apart in the second as usual.

One thing I have noticed this season compared to last is the almost complete lack of physicality from the Flames. We don't dole out the hits like we did last year and making teams respect us. Forecheck is very weak and backcheck is almost nonexistent. On defense we are soft as butter and forwards are given regular chances at our goalie without paying for it.

[FlatLandFlamesFan]

After the second goal I was screaming for a time-out .
Settle the team down ,get back to a cycle game (which was very effective at times last night)
instead Hartley just let thing continue and bam another goal. He seems to be doing less teaching this year .
This year looks like a rebuilding year so let's reinforce good habits and responsibility.
Wideman is what he is an offensive D-man who can score and is suspect in the D-zone . He needs a night off bring in a more defensively responsible player and clean up our own end.

[tvp2003]

As much as it pains me to say this, the sooner they realize this team isn't going anywhere this season, the better. The only reason playoffs aren't completely out of the picture is because the Pacific division is terrible. If we were 10+ points out of the playoffs (like we should be), it would be much more clear IMO.

Sit/trade some of the struggling veterans, and start some of the younger guys and see what they can do. Basically, rebuild hockey circa 13/14. With such little turnover in the roster from last year, I get the sense the same guys are trying to do the exact same thing and its not getting them the same results. This is causing frustration and poor play. Better to get some new blood in there who play with energy and aren't afraid to make mistakes because they don't know any better. Bob will have to adjust his strategy but that's what he's paid to do.

[Armchair Quarterback]

On another note I am usually a vocal critical of Stajan but I thought he had a great game last night.

[Calgary4LIfe]

Well, this is a rebuilding squad. That is what keeps me going.

Name one team that went through a rebuild and hasn't had a really terrible year. I can't really name one off the top of my head. Even the 4th last place finish when they got Bennett out of it was a fairly enjoyable season, and IIRC, the Flames were closer to 8th spot in the conference than last in terms of points.

So last year they over-achieved. This year, they are underachieving. Can anyone really state they thought this team was a contender? I don't think so.

In the end, this is still a heck of a nice core to be building around. Loads of talent, and also tonnes of depth. Just need to add a little bit to the core, and have them mature a little bit.

I just look at it as being a bit 'spoiled' during the rebuild in not having a really terrible year. NHL tying record in most 1 goal games 2 seasons ago, followed by a season in which they snuck into the playoffs in year 2 of the rebuild, and now in year 3 we have had our expectations too high based on the preceding seasons.

In the end, this is a rebuilding squad that is definitely showing itself to be in the midst of a rebuild. As a fan, how do I manage to enjoy the rebuild? Watching the future core developing - and they have. Gaudreau is sensational. Monahan is not doing so well - some inconsistencies for sure this year, but still putting up points on the board. Bennett is really starting to look like a thoroughbred. Hamilton has been consistently improving. Brodie - well, for the first time this year, I thought he looked human. Was starting to think he was some sort of infallible cyborg out there.

If this is the penance for not having a single bad year, well, so be it. Maybe the carrot at the end of this is an Auston Mathews, or Laine, or Puljavari (or however you spell it - wasn't following this draft class so closely this year - but if the Flames continue faltering, that is something to be more interested and invested in), and really finish off the 'bad years' of a rebuild. I can live with that.

Heck, this still easily destroys how terrible most of the 90's were for me as a fan. Back then, you knew you were essentially a farm team. When your players showed they could become great players, you knew they were bound for the NYR's and other American teams that could afford them. Now I at least know that as these kids start maturing and becoming great players, they are more than likely to remain here for a decade or two. That makes a bad season or two much, MUCH more bearable.

Besides, these bad seasons make the good ones that much more enjoyable.

/end eternal optimist rant

[Rick M.]

Last year there were many posts about how important the mentoring of young players by the veterans was. These posts are virtually nonexistent this year.

[polak]

Originally Posted by combustiblefuel

I can. He is working with what he has. It might not be what every one wants to hear but maybe the Flames at this moment just are not as good as everyone wishes they could be. The pieces are their to work on and improve but last year they had more luck then they are getting now. Its a younger team then even last year . They were lucky to get in the playoffs . The Kings win in that last meeting and Calgary doesn't get in and it is the Kings getting in again. One lucky season has thrown off all resonable perspectives of this team.

What exactly is he doing with what he's got? There have been no changes to the Flames team since game 1. The PP and PK are still trash, our defensive system is in utter disary and he hasn't made any tough line up choices or done anything to try a light a fire under this team.

Why are we keeping him around?

[saillias]

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

Even the 4th last place finish when they got Bennett out of it was a fairly enjoyable season

This has become a fairly common opinion with 2 years hindsight but it was not particularly fun in the moment. No one was jumping for joy when Reto Berra and Joey McDonald were stinking up the joint in November/December. O'Brien and Butler patrolling the blueline. Cammalleri disappearing act until after the trade deadline. McGrattan and Westgarth skating a regular shift on our 4th line. Rookie Monahan, rookie Bouma, Brodie still learning the ropes. No Gaudreau. Gio and Wideman injured for large parts of the year. Hudler and Glencross both their usual inconsistent and streaky selves.

It was a gong show and a silly brawl was the highlight of the season.

[Bandwagon In Flames]

There is so much that Hartley could be doing that he's simply not. When absolutely everything from offense to defense to goaltending is going piss poorly, it's obvious what needs to be changed. We know these players have potential and on paper they look to be a good team playing a bad system.

When hired as head coach, he promised the fans that we would see exciting hockey, even if the results wouldn't be great. Well now the results are abysmal and this is the worst hockey I've seen the Flames play in years. With the most talented team we have had in years.

Even the Stockton Heat are becoming victims of this crap system. The Flames are supposed to be super deep with prospects, but the team is also struggling. Huska's job is on the line because the AHL system has to resemble the NHL system.. I don't want prospects like Kylington and Kulak to have their development halted by this structureless system.

Enough of this Jack Adam's crap, it's time to change it up and bring in your own guy Treliving/Burke.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by saillias

This has become a fairly common opinion with 2 years hindsight but it was not particularly fun in the moment. No one was jumping for joy when Reto Berra and Joey McDonald were stinking up the joint in November/December. O'Brien and Butler patrolling the blueline. Cammalleri disappearing act until after the trade deadline. McGrattan and Westgarth skating a regular shift on our 4th line. Rookie Monahan, rookie Bouma, Brodie still learning the ropes. No Gaudreau. Gio and Wideman injured for large parts of the year. Hudler and Glencross both their usual inconsistent and streaky selves.

It was a gong show and a silly brawl was the highlight of the season.

They ended the season strong and that clouds the judgement as well.

After the brawl they had played good hockey and were playing at a playoff team pace. That really salvaged what was a horrible season up until that point.

[Bandwagon In Flames]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

They ended the season strong and that clouds the judgement as well.

After the brawl they had played good hockey and were playing at a playoff team pace. That really salvaged what was a horrible season up until that point.

Horrible season? We turned the 1 goal losses into 1 goal wins. The team was competitive all year. Look it up.

[VANFLAMESFAN]

Originally Posted by combustiblefuel

I can. He is working with what he has. It might not be what every one wants to hear but maybe the Flames at this moment just are not as good as everyone wishes they could be. The pieces are their to work on and improve but last year they had more luck then they are getting now. Its a younger team then even last year . They were lucky to get in the playoffs . The Kings win in that last meeting and Calgary doesn't get in and it is the Kings getting in again. One lucky season has thrown off all resonable perspectives of this team.

Yeah but the Kings didn't win that game, they were outplayed by the Flames and the right team got into the dance if you're going to put the playoffs on the line for that one game. Which is effectively what you did with that sentence.

Kings were a poor team last year, and yeah, the Flames had plenty of good fortune in multiple games last season to get in but I personally would never call a team busting their ass for 82 games and then call them lucky to get in.