Police investigate after violent video of Wal-Mart takedown

[Dynamic]

Originally Posted by codynw

I'm obviously not going to change anyone's mind, but the fact that people aren't angered by the fact that Wal Mart employees can legally use force to detain suspected shoplifters blows my mind. I don't know how a single person is okay with that.

Why would you be angered? If you are going to wal mart to shop legally no one will bug you and in the 0.01% chance of mistaken identity just show the lpo's you have nothing and move on. This is freakin awesome that employees of walmart can give these scum a beatdown.

[T@T]

Originally Posted by Dynamic

Why would you be angered? If you are going to wal mart to shop legally no one will bug you and in the 0.01% chance of mistaken identity just show the lpo's you have nothing and move on. This is freakin awesome that employees of walmart can give these scum a beatdown.

So now a shoplifter should get a beatdown? You either live in another country or you should.

[wretched34]

Originally Posted by Canehdianman

If two guys are attacking you, including restraining you (so you can't leave) and hitting you, it is without a doubt self-defense to use a knife to defend yourself.

It will also never be a felony in this country. Canada doesn't have felonies, we have summary offenses and indictable offenses (and hybrids, which can be either of the others).

That is not true. While it is legal to carry a knife in Canada, so long as it is not concealed, carrying a knife for self defense or as a weapon is illegal. So even if you are legally carrying a knife, as soon as it is used as a weapon, it becomes a crime. While you may say it was in self defense, you will under most circumstances, be charged with assault with a deadly weapon, or worse depending on the outcome.

[Derek Sutton]

Originally Posted by T@T

So now a shoplifter should get a beatdown? You either live in another country or you should.

Well he may think twice before doing it again. I got a good ole a$$ whippin by the leather belt when I stole bulk candy form Safeway, that was the last time I stoll anything.

[Robbob]

Ages ago I worked security and also worked with some LPO's at anchor stores. First off the only way an LPO or security will approach you is if they are certain you stole something. You would never arrest or detain someone on a hunch as you, your security company or the chain would be sued six ways to Sunday. A lot of companies do have a no arrest policy and are try to be visible deterrents and follow suspected shoplifters.

Citizens can only make a citizens arrest if they see an indictable offense. Property owners and those in care and control (Security/LPO) can arrest for any criminal offense (Summary or Indictable). In both cases you have to witness the crime and as stated with a reasonable time. I am guessing these guys probably used cameras and got the guy shoplifting on camera and as soon as he left the store they ran him down and tried to arrest him. To arrest all you have to do is identify your self and tell them that they are under arrest (I believe what for as well...been a while so that is fuzzy).

As soon as the guy doesn't comply and tries to get away he is resisting. At that point they are more then allowed to use force to arrest. I didn't see anything wrong with what they did under those circumstances considering a knife was pulled on them. The take down was a complete mess considering there was two and they didn't really have control of the suspect at all.

[T@T]

Originally Posted by Derek Sutton

Well he may think twice before doing it again. I got a good ole a$$ whippin by the leather belt when I stole bulk candy form Safeway, that was the last time I stoll anything.

Did you get it from a safeway employee?

Didn't think so, and if you fail to see the difference I can't help you.

Originally Posted by Robbob

Ages ago I worked security and also worked with some LPO's at anchor stores. First off the only way an LPO or security will approach you is if they are certain you stole something. You would never arrest or detain someone on a hunch as you, your security company or the chain would be sued six ways to Sunday. A lot of companies do have a no arrest policy and are try to be visible deterrents and follow suspected shoplifters.

Citizens can only make a citizens arrest if they see an indictable offense. Property owners and those in care and control (Security/LPO) can arrest for any criminal offense (Summary or Indictable). In both cases you have to witness the crime and as stated with a reasonable time. I am guessing these guys probably used cameras and got the guy shoplifting on camera and as soon as he left the store they ran him down and tried to arrest him. To arrest all you have to do is identify your self and tell them that they are under arrest (I believe what for as well...been a while so that is fuzzy).

As soon as the guy doesn't comply and tries to get away he is resisting. At that point they are more then allowed to use force to arrest. I didn't see anything wrong with what they did under those circumstances considering a knife was pulled on them. The take down was a complete mess considering there was two and they didn't really have control of the suspect at all.

LPO's are no different than citizens... they cannot arrest for summary conviction offences.

[Robbob]

Originally Posted by Bent Wookie

LPO's are no different than citizens... they cannot arrest for summary conviction offences.

theft under is a summary offense. I wasn't an LPO but from my understanding in this situation, working as a LPO for Wal-Mart the company would pass that care and control to the LPO so they could make these arrests.

Originally Posted by Robbob

theft under is a summary offense. I wasn't an LPO but from my understanding in this situation, working as a LPO for Wal-Mart the company would pass that care and control to the LPO so they could make these arrests.

No it's not. It's a hybrid. Meaning the crown elects which way to pursue the charge- indictable or summary. However for law enforcement and citizens, hybrid offences are always treated as indictable offences at the time of commision.

[BigNumbers]

Originally Posted by Bent Wookie

No it's not. It's a hybrid. Meaning the crown elects which way to pursue the charge- indictable or summary. However for law enforcement and citizens, hybrid offences are always treated as indictable offences at the time of commision.

This guy is correct. Nice to see the wide breadth of knowledge on this place, it continues to astound me. I assume you're CC/CP?

[RougeUnderoos]

What kind of training does an "LPO" have to go through to get this job?

I really don't feel much sympathy for the guy who got roughed up if he actually stole something and started the fight, but I'm not comfortable with a couple guys working at Wal-Mart having any sort of authority over anything but the shopping carts.

And the whole "if you haven't done anything wrong, just do as they say" idea is crazy.

[Mr.Coffee]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

What kind of training does an "LPO" have to go through to get this job?

I really don't feel much sympathy for the guy who got roughed up if he actually stole something and started the fight, but I'm not comfortable with a couple guys working at Wal-Mart having any sort of authority over anything but the shopping carts.

And the whole "if you haven't done anything wrong, just do as they say" idea is crazy.

Really? Crazy? Why?

Don't you think that if the suspect was actually innocent, following the orders would be the easiest way to move along and get on with your day?

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

Really? Crazy? Why?

Don't you think that if the suspect was actually innocent, following the orders would be the easiest way to move along and get on with your day?

I guess because taking "orders" in the parking lot from guys who work at Wal-Mart isn't something I think anyone should be hunky-dory with.

I mean come on, it's Wal-Mart.

[Mr.Coffee]

I feel like that argument just wouldn't go well though. If a couple mall cop Wal Mart dudes approached me I wouldn't reply with come on now, look at yourselves and where you work. You're a joke and I have somewhere to get to.

Nor would I pull out a knife for that matter though.

In retrospect and in conclusion, Wal-Mart's type of flooring really annoys me. A gigantic multi-billion dollar business, can we improve the floor from the 40 year old linoleum? Yep, I don't think I'd be shopping there anyway to get questioned by a couple bored pretend cops but I also don't think I would shrug em off either. And #### their flooring.

[pylon]

It is pretty simple to avoid this situation, and the reaction of the guy IMO pretty much proves he stole something. Because if you are confronted by a LPO and have done nothing wrong, it takes all of about 10 seconds to dissolve the situation by talking it out.

I was in home depot and had a shower head with one of those hoses attached, because I was looking for a washer that plugged into base. I was in the plumbing aisle, and realized I left my wallet in the car. I walked out the front door with a shower head in my hand to get it, and got chased out the door by 2 employees. When they said stop, I just stopped. I took about 5 seconds to explain and show them the hard water stains on the shower head proving it was used. All parties chuckled, and when I went back in with my wallet, they gave me the $1.19 washer for nothing, and apologized for the confusion.

Keep a calm head and explain yourself, and you have nothing to worry about.

[driveway]

Crime against property isn't really crime.

[pylon]

So if someone burns down you house intentionally, it's not a crime......... OK.

[driveway]

I know, I know. It's a largely empty platitude which is in no way backed up by our legal system.

But a company with insurance up the wazoo who returned 12.8 billion to its shareholders last fiscal year could maybe take a look at it's policies vis-a-vis in store security accosting shoplifters.

That said, after the guy pulled a knife, I have no problems with the actions of the security guys.

[Aleks]

Originally Posted by driveway

I know, I know. It's a largely empty platitude which is in no way backed up by our legal system.

But a company with insurance up the wazoo who returned 12.8 billion to its shareholders last fiscal year could maybe take a look at it's policies vis-a-vis in store security accosting shoplifters.

That said, after the guy pulled a knife, I have no problems with the actions of the security guys.

So what you're saying is because wal-mart has the means or whatever to absorb loss, they should therefore just accept it? It doesn't matter how much profit they turned, its still not your property to take! What a weird ass robin hood theory you're suggesting.

I can't tell if its entitlement, or just hate for successful companies in a free market condition (hey, its cool to hate on the man right?), but ANY company that owns property in the form of merchandise does not owe that to anyone because they make money, and have every right to protect that "liquid asset" because its theirs. I guess you'd be OK if I just took stuff from you, property or money, because I'm sure you have extra to spare...

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by driveway

Crime against property isn't really crime.

Hey can you PM me your address, I had a package with your name come to my house by mistake, and I'd like to errr drop it off.

And what are your working hours, I want to hmmmm make sure I don't miss you.

Oh and last question, where do you keep the jewelry