[News] Calgary Flames' struggles wearing on honcho Brian Burke - Page 5 - Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

BigTuna · 01-19-2014, 09:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by $ven27

As of today? No, 2 or 3 years time? Very possible.

I don't see anything in Hamilton that says he'll be a Norris winner like people claim. Morgan Rielly is better.

And despite all the acclaim Seguin is getting as playing like a true star #1 centre, Kessel has more points like every year.

$ven27 · 01-19-2014, 09:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigTuna

I don't see anything in Hamilton that says he'll be a Norris winner like people claim. Morgan Rielly is better.

And despite all the acclaim Seguin is getting as playing like a true star #1 centre, Kessel has more points like every year.

Seguin is still only 21, he's got plenty of time to continue bulking up and improving. And when you add in Hamilton, who even if he only becomes a top 4 Dman, then I think it most people would take the Seguin & Hamilton pairing over Kessel. Not sure what Rielly has to do with anything though.

moon · 01-19-2014, 09:47 AM

I didn't think the deal was that bad at the time and now think it isn't too bad either but the more Big Tuna comes in spewing his butt hurt Leafs fan garbage I think the trade looks worse and worse for TO.

BigTuna · 01-19-2014, 09:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by $ven27

Seguin is still only 21, he's got plenty of time to continue bulking up and improving. And when you add in Hamilton, who even if he only becomes a top 4 Dman, then I think it most people would take the Seguin & Hamilton pairing over Kessel. Not sure what Rielly has to do with anything though.

And Phil will continue to be a star himself for years to come. He'll be PPG for the 3rd straight year this year. And that's with an injured wrist and having Holland as his centre for a big chunk of games.

It amazes the great stats Kessel puts up and the consensus is he's not that good. Only on the Leafs.

Vinny01 · 01-19-2014, 09:49 AM

Another new article from Francis talking about how Burke is working the phones hard but hasn't found the value yet.

2014 1st is untouchable (no team has even asked for it)
He thinks there will be better value for UFAs closer to the deadline
No quick fix trades
He is chasing down other GMs right now more than they coming to him.

http://m.calgarysun.com/2014/01/18/c...-and-gm-search

$ven27 · 01-19-2014, 09:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigTuna

And Phil will continue to be a star himself for years to come. He'll be PPG for the 3rd straight year this year. And that's with an injured wrist and having Holland as his centre for a big chunk of games.

It amazes the great stats Kessel puts up and the consensus is he's not that good. Only on the Leafs.

Nobody here is saying anything negative about Kessel, he's pretty underrated and a star for sure. BUT, a star center + a top 4 Dman is better then one star winger.

BigTuna · 01-19-2014, 09:54 AM

We'll see how Seguin progresses. A little early to call him a star given how bad he was last season.

If getting a future star at age 21 is your "Worst" move. Burke must have made a lot of great trades.

You can play the Seguin Hamilton card, but where would the Leafs be without JVR, Gardiner, Franson or Lupul? You can play that game with any GM.

moon · 01-19-2014, 09:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigTuna

We'll see how Seguin progresses. A little early to call him a star given how bad he was last season.

How bad he was last year?

He wasn't bad at all.

BigTuna · 01-19-2014, 09:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by moon

How bad he was last year?

He wasn't bad at all.

He regressed badly overall. In the playoffs I'd go as far as saying he might have cost them a cup. Guy was invisible the entire playoffs. He was just terrible.

moon · 01-19-2014, 10:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigTuna

He regressed badly overall. In the playoffs I'd go as far as saying he might have cost them a cup. Guy was invisible the entire playoffs. He was just terrible.

Cost them a Cup?

He was a 2nd line forward for them.

He didn't come close to costing them the Cup and was far from invisible.

Goodlad · 01-19-2014, 10:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigTuna

2 firsts is too much for Phil? And you guys think an aging Cammelari should fetch h at least 1 first.

Phil Kessel is terribly underrated. The stats don't lie.

Getting a 21 year-old top 5 pick who just had a breakthrough season will not come cheap.

Not all 1st rounders are the same. Cammy should get a late first. Kessel was traded for a 2nd overall and a 9th overall. I'm hoping you're just using hyperbole to make a point here, because if you can't see a huge difference there I don't know what to tell you.

BigTuna · 01-19-2014, 10:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goodlad

Not all 1st rounders are the same. Cammy should get a late first. Kessel was traded for a 2nd overall and a 9th overall. I'm hoping you're just using hyperbole to make a point here, because if you can't see a huge difference there I don't know what to tell you.

Oh I understand the difference. Do you understand the difference between Phil Kessel and Mike Cammelari?

Do you have any idea how much a guy is worth at age 21 who was picked 5th overall (And that's dropping in the draft, he was as high as being ranked first overall months previous) who just had a huge breakout season?

Cammerlari is an aging, past-his-prime upcoming UFA. Apples and oranges.

moon · 01-19-2014, 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigTuna

Oh I understand the difference. Do you understand the difference between Phil Kessel and Mike Cammelari?

Sometimes Mike Cammalieri accidently plays defense and Phil Kessel makes sure to never make that mistake?

BigTuna · 01-19-2014, 10:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by moon

Cost them a Cup?

He was a 2nd line forward for them.

He didn't come close to costing them the Cup and was far from invisible.

GP 22 G 1 A7 P 8 -2

One goal in 22 games despite all that ice-time. And he was out drinking during the playoffs.

Seguin was just terrible in the playoffs.

BigTuna · 01-19-2014, 10:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by moon

Sometimes Mike Cammalieri accidently plays defense and Phil Kessel makes sure to never make that mistake?

Oh please stop with the defense excuse. Phil Kessel is in his prime and in another league.

Badgers Nose · 01-19-2014, 10:15 AM

Cami will fetch a 1st and decent prospect (like a hanowski or cundari)
Cami at half cap will fetch a 1st and a good prospect (like one of Pitts young d men)
Cami and a bad contract coming back will fetch a 1st and a couple of good prospects.

If the bad contract expires in 2016 the you can do this again in a couple of years. Scouring cap geek, I see some candidates.

moon · 01-19-2014, 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigTuna

Oh please stop with the defense excuse. Phil Kessel is in his prime and in another league.

What excuse?

You asked a question I answered it. Sorry it didn't have the Leafs colored glasses response you wanted.

BigTuna · 01-19-2014, 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by moon

What excuse?

You asked a question I answered it. Sorry it didn't have the Leafs colored glasses response you wanted.

One player is a star the other is not. Cammelari doesn't even play good defense anyways.

moon · 01-19-2014, 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigTuna

One player is a star the other is not. Cammelari doesn't even play good defense anyways.

I agree Cammalieri is terrible defensively.

Kessel in bottom 5% of defensive ability/effort and Cammy in bottom 10% so Cammy just slightly better in that area.

868904 · 01-19-2014, 10:35 AM

The Kessel trade looks bad because the Bruins hit on their selections. If the Bruins on even one of those picks, it looks like a steal for Burke.

As Flames fans, we should understand that the draft, even high picks, are uncertain.

Burke paid a premium for certainty, Bruins took the risk and were rewarded.