Any bread nerds here

[Mike F]

Came expecting to discuss awesome beards.

Left disappointed and hungry.

[redforever]

Originally Posted by Zevo

Happy to contribute.

Redforever, thanks for all the tips and recipes in this thread! If you have any more I guess what you would call beginner recipes, please post, if you don't mind. I also like the photos you provide...very helpful.

Here is a very very basic recipe that is pretty well done in 2 hours with good results and good taste......and any beginner should be able to make this bread. I actually made these buns and twists today. I am expecting company tomorrow so will have some fresh bread on hand. I made two batches, instead of one double batch. These twists or buns take around 18 to 20 minutes to bake and while they are baking, the second batch that you have made and shaped is pretty well risen and ready to put in the oven as the first batch comes out. So basically, I made two batches of bread in about 2 hours.

I am going to post the recipe first with pictures of what the dough looks like in its various stages. Then I will do a post on how to shape and bake the bread twists. Then I will do a post on how to do shape and bake the rustic buns. Excuse the pictures if they are not all up to snuff but I was trying to make the dough and take pictures at the same time, all the time trying not to get my camera full of flour and dough.

Bread Twists

1 1/2 cups lukewarm water
1 Tbsp sugar (scant)
1 Tbsp yeast
1 Tbsp oil
3/4 tsp salt
3 to 4 cups all-purpose bread flour

1 Put the water, sugar, and yeast in the bowl of a stand mixer equipped with the bread hook and mix to combine. Let stand for 10 minutes or until yeast is bubbly. If you are using instant yeast and you are absolutely sure it is fresh and active, you can add the yeast directly to the flour without proofing it first. Add the salt, oil, and 1 1/2 cups flour and mix well. Gradually add more flour until the dough starts to pull away from the sides of the bowl and it barely sticks to your finger. Knead for 5 minutes, or until smooth and elastic. Remove dough, lightly grease or spray the bowl, return dough to the bowl, and turn to coat. Cover with saran and let rise in a warm place for 45 minutes or until doubled in size.

2 Line two baking sheets with parchment paper or lightly coat with cooking spray. Remove dough from the bowl and place on a lightly floured surface. Roll the dough into a log and cut into 12 equal sized pieces. Shape into bread twists or rustic dinner rolls and place on the prepared baking sheets. Space them evenly apart on the baking sheets, 6 twists per baking sheet. Cover the baking sheets and let the twists or rustic dinner rolls rise until doubled in size, about 30 to 40 minutes.

3 Bake in a preheated 425F oven for 15 to 20 minutes, rotating pans back to front and top shelf to bottom shelf halfway through baking. The bread twists or rustic dinner rolls are done when golden brown on the top and bottom. Remove the baked bread twists or rustic dinner rolls from the oven and transfer them to a wire rack to cool.

4 Garlic Bread Seasoning: You will need this seasoning if making the bread twists. Put 1/4 cup powdered Parmesan cheese, 1 tsp Kosher salt, 1 tsp dried basil, 1 tsp garlic powder, 1 tsp dried oregano, 1 tsp dried marjoram and 1 tsp dried parsley in a small bowl and whisk to combine. This is enough for a double or triple batch of this recipe. Cover and refrigerate the remaining seasoning until the next use.



The ingredients have been mixed together for about 1 minute. The dough is very shaggy at this stage.


The dough is just starting to clear the sides of the bowl. It is still shaggy and not very smooth or elastic at this point in time. This is after about 2 to 3 minutes of mixing.


The dough is almost ready. The dough is getting very stretchy and elastic as the gluten has now developed. The dough is starting to clear the sides of the bowl but it also falls off the bread hook fairly quickly and sort of puddles at the bottom of the bowl.


This is what the dough looks like after 5 to 6 minutes of kneading in my stand mixer. Notice that the bowl is now clean? The bread still stretches and slowly falls off the hook, but it does not fall off quickly nor does it puddle at the bottom of the bowl. If you are kneading the dough by hand, it will take about 8 to 10 minutes to get to this stage.


The dough has been shaped into a ball and is ready to proof. See how nice and smooth and elastic it looks?


This is what the dough looks like halfway through proofing.


The dough has fully risen and is ready to be shaped into twists or buns.

[redforever]

Bread Twists


Turn the dough out onto a lightly floured surface. I have a large very lightly pebbled plastic board for this purpose and I only use it for bread and pastries. Mine is large enough to handle most amounts of bread dough as well as pie dough and is 18" x 24". Really, get one of these as it makes most types of dough much easier to handle. The cheapest places to get these types of kitchen tools are restaurant suppy outlets, like Crown Food Equipment or Russel Food Equipment, both located up 4th St SE just north of 58 Ave.

Also, get a bench scraper. I have the OXO one, as it has a ruler on the bottom to facilitate cutting of the same lengths. I also find a dough scraper very handy to get dough out of bowls. The ones that are thinner and more flexible are the best as they adapt to the size of most bowls.


Shape the dough into a log and cut it into about 12 equal sized pieces. Then roll each piece into a rope that is about 15" long. Cover the dough that you are not using, to prevent a skin from forming on it.


Shape the rope into a U and put your finger in about the middle. Flip one piece of the rope over your finger to get started. The piece that you see go over the top of my finger should be just a bit longer. You can remove your finger now.


Flip the ropes of dough over one another or twist them 3 or 4 times and pinch the ends together.


Repeat with all of the pieces of dough, put on a baking sheet that has been lightly greased or lined with parchment paper, cover, and proof until doubled in size, about half an hour.


The twists are fully proofed and ready to go in the oven. Bake in a preheated 425F oven for 15 to 20 minutes, rotating pans back to front and top shelf to bottom shelf halfway through baking. The bread twists are done when golden brown on the top and bottom.


Prepare your herb and garlic seasoning.


The rolls have just come out of the oven.


Baste 2 or 3 of the hot rolls with melted butter and sprinkle with seasoning. Repeat until done. I normally only use seasoning on half the twists as some are not as fond of garlic as others.


The bottom crust of the twists should be about the same color as the top crust.

[redforever]

Rustic Dinner Rolls

Sometimes you just don't have the time or the inclination to fiddle with shaping buns so making bread this way simplifies things.


Turn the dough out onto a lightly floured surface, shape into a log, and cut the log into about 12 equal pieces.


Put some cornmeal in a bowl. Dip one cut side of the dough into the cornmeal, flip over, and dip the other cut side of the dough in the cornmeal.


Repeat with the rest of the dough, put on a baking sheet, cover, and let proof until doubled in size, about 30 minutes.


The rolls are fully proofed and ready to go into the oven. Bake in a preheated 425F oven for 15 to 20 minutes, rotating pans back to front and top shelf to bottom shelf halfway through baking. The rustic dinner rolls are done when golden brown on the top and bottom.


The rolls are baked and have just come out of the oven.


This is the inside crumb. These rustic buns are very nice with a meal or made into a bunwich.


The bottom crust should be about the same color as the top crust.


Notes: You can make this bread into any shape you want. As long as the size is about the same and you make about 12 buns, the baking time will stay the same.

This is a very basic recipe and with most recipes of this type, they do not stay fresh for a long period of time. However, they can be baked and frozen and refreshed when you wish to eat them at a later date.

Just thaw the rolls and put them right on the rack of a preheated 350F oven and heat for about 3 to 5 minutes. They will be as fresh as when you made them.

You can use that same process for any bread that you made and did not eat right away, even loaves of bread. Just increase the time in the oven for a loaf of bread.

[Rudee]

Originally Posted by peter12

You should have just got your fat ass on a bike.

Thanks for the advise, but I'm not fat. I'm 6' and 185lbs.

[Wormius]

Hi Redforever, it looks like you are using a KitchenAid for you dough making. Is that one of the newer models? How has it faired? I got a flyer from Costco today that the Pro. Model is going on sale for $300 in a couple of weeks. Wondering if it would be worth it to take the plunge.

[redforever]

Originally Posted by Wormius

Hi Redforever, it looks like you are using a KitchenAid for you dough making. Is that one of the newer models? How has it faired? I got a flyer from Costco today that the Pro. Model is going on sale for $300 in a couple of weeks. Wondering if it would be worth it to take the plunge.

I bought my Kitchen Aid stand mixer from someone on CP. They had built a new home and part of their package was a Kitchen Aid kitchen, but they already had a stand mixer so were selling it.

I think I have had mine for about 3 years? I use it for cookies and small batches of bread. It is the Artisan 5 quart series, tilt head, and it has been very good for the needs I specified.

If you are looking to buy a Kitchen Aid, I would for sure buy the model with a stainless steel bowl. Also, Home Outfitters has those 25% off any one item in the store sales and you can get a stand mixer at a very good price during such a sale. Otherwise, keep an eye on Cayne's Housewares (on line store). They have Kitchen Aid on sale about 4 times a year and usually during those promotions, they offer free shipping for items over $75 or maybe $100, something like that.

For larger batches of bread, if I double cookie recipes, basically when I use more than 5 cups of flour or ingredients, I always use my Bosch Universal Mixer. In my humble opinion, it is the best on the market.

Just within the last year, I gave my first Bosch to my daughter, as she has got into bread making and the like. It is about 25 years old and still purring like a kitten. I bought the new Plus model, which has a bit more powerful motor, I think 800 watt. It also has suction cups on the bottom so does not rock around on the counter. I just bought the basic model as I have all the accessories from my first one and they fit the new model.

And they are a great deal, not much more than a Kitchen Aid for ten times the machine.

[tete]

What a thread! I literally have no kitchen right now due to renovations, but man, once it's back up and running, I'm making a whole pile of bread. I find baking with yeast one of the biggest challenges of baking and it's such a wonderful accomplishment when it turns out well.

[Wormius]

I am actually not too sure what kind of mixer would be adequate. I don't see us making more than one or two loaves at a time, and mainly other tasks would be cookies and cakes, steam bun dough, pasta, etc. I don't necessarily need an industrial power mixer, but don't want it going into melt-down as soon as it encounters anything stiff.

My main concern is some recent reviews about them overheating and going into shutdown.

p.s. that Bosch looks like some lab equipment we used to have.

[redforever]

Originally Posted by Wormius

I am actually not too sure what kind of mixer would be adequate. I don't see us making more than one or two loaves at a time, and mainly other tasks would be cookies and cakes, steam bun dough, pasta, etc. I don't necessarily need an industrial power mixer, but don't want it going into melt-down as soon as it encounters anything stiff.

My main concern is some recent reviews about them overheating and going into shutdown.

p.s. that Bosch looks like some lab equipment we used to have.

Then I think you would be fine with a Kitchen Aid. So far, knock on wood, mine has been fine. I don't know of anyone who has a Cuisinart to see how it rates in comparison.

I have the pasta dough attachment and it can handle 3 to 4 cups of flour. I also have the meat grinder attachment. I did not really need the meat grinder as my Bosch has one as well, but the Kitchen Aid is nice for just doing small batches of meat, as well as grinding all the apples and other ingredients when making mincemeat.

Small appliance for small jobs.....large appliance for large jobs.

By the way, talking about the meat grinder for my Bosch...what a machine. I also have the sausage attachments.

My son once got a deer, only time he went hunting. I am not fond of deer meat on its own. However, my Dad used to be a big deer hunter and my parents made a lot of sausage with the meat. So that is what we did.

My husband cut all the meat into about 4 to 6 inch strips. We also added in about 40% pork shoulder, cut up in the same fashion. That Bosch ground up about 60 pounds of meat in less than an hour, never even got warm. You could just keep pushing the meat through the feeder and it never slowed down. Then we seasoned it, put it through the Bosch again, minus the grinder, through the sausage thing, and into natural casings. It was some of the best sausage we have ever had.

I think I will make some more come Christmas time, barbecue it, slice ut up and serve it as hors d'oeuvres.

[Wormius]

That Bosch sure looks like it could reduce a number of appliances and simplify a kitchen.

[redforever]

Originally Posted by Wormius

That Bosch sure looks like it could reduce a number of appliances and simplify a kitchen.

Well yes, it can...but it is really a machine for large jobs, almost a commercial machine. For instance, I would never use it to make the small amount of dough that I used for the bread twists and rustic buns today.

My original Bosch came with a blender, which you can see in the picture. If you remove the lid from that round hole on the right hand side of the Bosch, the blender fits in there. The meat grinder fits in there too, you just turn the Bosch on its side to use the meat grinder. Now I don't use that blender as much as my small one that is handier to pull out of my cupboards. But for certain blending jobs, the Bosch is better.

So I really think you have to weigh in how often you would be making larger recipes and go from there. I find that I use both of my stand mixers and I like both of them for specific uses.

[redforever]

Originally Posted by Wormius

Hi Redforever, it looks like you are using a KitchenAid for you dough making. Is that one of the newer models? How has it faired? I got a flyer from Costco today that the Pro. Model is going on sale for $300 in a couple of weeks. Wondering if it would be worth it to take the plunge.

I forgot to mention that I think that pro model that will be going on sale is a "lift" stand mixer rather than a "tilt" stand mixer.

They work differently so do some research to see how each one works and which one you think you would prefer.

[Canada 02]

bump

anyone use sourdough starter? Can it be used in place of yeast in any bread recipe, and if so, in what amounts, assuming a well fed, and growing starter

[Komskies]

I can't answer your sourdough starter question, but i bet redforever can!

I figure since you bumped this thread though, I would post my two attempts at making the Rustic Italian bread that redforever. I'll just say this, the second loaf came out way better than the first!






Thanks to redforever for all of the useful tips. If anybody was on the fence about trying one of these recipes, give this Rustic Italian bread a try. The hardest part was the waiting between each proofing.

[polak]

Being a very close family friend with the owner of Kings Bakery here in Calgary, I routinely get to try the freshest most amazing bread ever.

[Komskies]

I really wish there was a bakery in the deep SE (Copperfield area). If somebody knows about one down there, please let me know.

[redforever]

Originally Posted by Canada 02

bump

anyone use sourdough starter? Can it be used in place of yeast in any bread recipe, and if so, in what amounts, assuming a well fed, and growing starter

I have a sourdough starter that I started on my own about 25 years ago. As long as it is fed regularily, or else refrigerated when not being used, it will pretty well last forever. I saw a documentary on the History Channel one time, about Egypt. They found some urns in a pyramid with some white caked sort of powder in it. They scraped some out and added water and it was sourdough starter!!!

The sourdough starter can indeed be used in place of yeast because basically, it is a wild yeast. You ferment water and flour and try to capture live yeast in the air.

This is what mine looks like. It was very fresh and activated at this point because I had company and made sourdough waffles for breakfast.




Basically, it looks like proofed yeast and mine is about the consistency of pancake batter. It smells like proofed yeast too because that is what it is...a natural yeast. I try to keep about the amount shown. If I am planning on using it for quite a few recipes, I just grow it bigger by feeding it more. To feed mine, I add about 1/2 cup lukewarm water, 3/4 cup flour, and 1 tsp honey. You can keep adding this ratio until you have as much sourdough starter as you need. If I am travelling or just not using it on a weekly basis, I refrigerate it.

It is hard to give a recipe because of various factors. All sourdough starters are different and behave differently as well.

A lot depends on how active and fed your sourdough starter is. If it has been dormant or refrigerated, it should be fed and activated before using. The longer it has been dormant, the longer it will take to reactivate. It has to be fully activated before it is used. Otherwise it will be sluggish and it will take a copious amount of time for the bread to rise to the proper volume, like maybe even a full day, or worse yet, the dough might not rise at all.

Then all sourdough starters have a different hydration. Some are 100% hydration, meaning the weight of the water and the weight of the flour are the same. Other sourdough starters are wetter, some are drier.

It will also depend on what kind of recipe you are making. If you are using heavier flours, you will need more sourdough starter.

Proofing times vary too. Most sourdough breads require a longer proofing time. Some sourdough breads use a starter as well as some bought yeast. You use the starter for the flavor and a bit of yeast to hurry the process along. Also, when I make sourdough bread, I normally only let it proof once in the bowl, then shape, proof and bake.

If you would like to make your own sourdough starter and try some loaves of bread, this site is a pretty good starting point. Making your own starter and sourdough bread has been very popular on a lot of cooking blogs and this is what this person did.

http://pinchmysalt.com/how-to-make-sourdough-bread/

I can't really give you a recipe for the bread I make. When I use my sourdough starter, I just kinda go by look and feel. However, I did make some basic sourdough bread about 10 days ago, and will run you through the process of what I did. Keep in mind, I never wrote down the amounts, I am just estimating what I remember using. I think I started with 3 cups of starter and probably the equivalent of that in lukewarm water. The bread was about 60% wholewheat. I used maybe 3 to 4 Tbsp honey and oil, maybe 2 Tbsp salt, 2 Tbsp gluten, and then probably 8 to 10 cups flour.


I used my Bosch Universal Mixer to make this bread as this was a large amount of dough. A KitchenAid stand mixer could not handle this amount of dough. After the dough had proofed once, I turned it out onto a lightly floured surface and used my bench scraper to cut it into 5 pieces that were roughly equivalent in size. I never used a scale, just went by feel.


I took each piece of dough and flattened it and shaped it into a rectangle that was roughly the length of my bread pans.


Then I rolled each piece of dough into a log, pinched the seam and the ends. You should be able to see that the dough is nice and soft but not tacky and I have hardly used any flour on the surface that I turned the dough out on. Try to use the least amount of flour possible.


I rolled the loaves a bit to smooth them out and to make sure the seam was indeed sealed, and put each piece into my bread pans.


I proofed the loaves until they had roughly doubled in size. This took about 40 minutes at my end, but will depend on your dough and the warmth of the area you are proofing your bread in.


Then I baked the loaves in a preheated 375F oven until the loaves were golden brown on the top as well as the sides and bottom, about 30 to 40 minutes. When the loaves are getting to about the right color on the top, you can remove one from its pan to see how the side and bottom crust are coming along. This was plain bread. I never slashed the tops nor did I baste the loaves with an egg wash, sprinkle with seeds, or anything else along that line. I wanted plain bread for sandwiches, toasting, and the like.


This is the inside crumb of the loaves.


You can of course make sourdough bread freeform as well.


Inside crumb.


Or any shape that you wish..... When I have company, I like to make cluster rolls. Then I put the whole pan of rolls in a basket that has been lined with napkins and just let everyone tear off a roll. By the way, I baked these cluster rolls in springform pans.

[redforever]

Originally Posted by Komskies

I can't answer your sourdough starter question, but i bet redforever can!

I figure since you bumped this thread though, I would post my two attempts at making the Rustic Italian bread that redforever. I'll just say this, the second loaf came out way better than the first!






Thanks to redforever for all of the useful tips. If anybody was on the fence about trying one of these recipes, give this Rustic Italian bread a try. The hardest part was the waiting between each proofing.

I thought it was quite amazing the job that Komskies did. We exchanged some notes, he sent me more detailed pictures, I sent some more suggestions, and his second loaf came out much better than his first.

The best thing was, he recognized on his own, some of the things that probably could be improved upon with his first loaf.

Actually, I think he is trying to impress someone at his office))) He had wanted to make this bread for a potluck at his office.

The bread is not the only thing he took to the potluck. He asked me if I could send along some cookie recipes, which I did. He made two batches of cookies as well. I never saw pictures of the second recipe he used, but he did send me some pictures of the first recipe and they turned out amazing...pretty well perfect first time around.

[Dorkmaster]

Mad props to redforever. I'd love try to my hand at making bread, but as a student, I've got no equipment or time at the moment. Definitely going to try though when Christmas break hits.