Naturopaths Recognized in Alberta

[zamler]

Originally Posted by firebug

Again, why do these miracles fail when they are examined?

Because there are no miracles. A miracle cure would have been my friend having their sight completely restored. But that didn't happen, they have been able to keep the vision they have.

[Knut]

Originally Posted by zamler

I know someone with macular degeneration. They have been seeing a specialist for years, their vision continued to degrade. They stopped taking the drug treatments and went natural, since then they have managed to keep their vision from deteriorating. They still see the specialist for the vision tests etc. and they continue to get laser treatments if the pressure goes too high, although that has not happened in the last 2 years or so.

I think your friend may be a bit confused with what they have. Pressure has nothing to do with Macular Degeneration. The Laser treatment is likely their treatment for the Macular Degeneration. Glaucoma is the disease that has high pressures involved and while there is laser treatment for that, it is not something that is done continuously.

This is a big issue in health care. Studies have shown that patients retain only %60 of what they hear during a health examination. Your friend likely has formed their own conclusions out of confusion.

[Knut]

^ To add to that. Think of how much his friends and family have retained from what they said about their condition.

[GP_Matt]

Originally Posted by zamler

Yea it's that easy, just get a new Doctor. When I came back to Canada it took me over 2 years on a waiting list before I got a family doctor.

I will second this. In our city no doctor will take on a patient who already has a doctor. My wife and I even met with a doctor who was taking new patients, he told us that it wouldn't be fair to take on a patient who already had a doctor when others had no doctor. The reality though is that doctors don't want to face the doctor that they are "stealing" patients from so it is just easier not to.

If all your doctor will do is write prescriptions I can understand the frustration that leads to alternative medicine. I am against it personally, but I am healthy and don't have much need for a doctor so don't really care.

[zamler]

Originally Posted by Hesla

I think your friend may be a bit confused with what they have. Pressure has nothing to do with Macular Degeneration. The Laser treatment is likely their treatment for the Macular Degeneration. Glaucoma is the disease that has high pressures involved and while there is laser treatment for that, it is not something that is done continuously.

This is a big issue in health care. Studies have shown that patients retain only %60 of what they hear during a health examination. Your friend likely has formed their own conclusions out of confusion.

Are you for real? I think my friend realizes what she has. Had it even occurred to you that a person can have macular degeneration and glaucoma? No I suppose not, you were too busy being a smug know it all. Doosh. She has had laser treatment on both eyes to bring down the pressure, each done about 2-3 weeks apart.

[joe_mullen]

Originally Posted by Phaneufenstein

Most doctors at walk-in clinics and some family doctors are utter garbage.
They don't listen, and just want to get you out of their office asap so they can see the next patient.
There are a few solutions to all your problems: painkillers, antibiotics, ice...etc.

Thanks, I could've figured this out myself!!

Bottom line is, if a traditional doctor can't help me with whatever problem I'm having, I will go see a naturopath.
It has worked for a ton of people, so why poo-poo on them if they prevailed where traditional medicine failed?

not sure where to even start.

pain killers are usually short term symptomatic management while the body fixes it self. not sure what you're expecting, no ones forcing you to fill a prescription for pain killers.

antibiotics are one mankinds greatest inventions. they are likely THE reason why most of us live approximately 80 years.

ice is an outstanding anti-inflammatory with minimal side effects. not sure why anyone would have a problem with a physician suggesting it as treatment (and it's natural )

all in all, medicine is not as complicated as some make it out to be. the majority of ailments are treated with fairly similar treatments that are mostly a small variation of each other.

if you could have figured it out yourself, why go? too many people seem to have their own agendas when seeing a physician (especially in primary care) and seem dissatisfied when it isn't met.

as for physicians that don't listen, not sure where in canada you live, but in calgary most PCNs have services to help patients find physicians. if yours doesn't listen, find a better one...you'll be surprised, most are more than willing to listen (especially when there is an agreed upon agenda) and help you out. in the end, all physicians are strictly consultants, they are there to provide a profesional medical opinion, nothing else.

[moon]

Originally Posted by zamler

Are you for real? I think my friend realizes what she has. Had it even occurred to you that a person can have macular degeneration and glaucoma? No I suppose not, you were too busy being a smug know it all. Doosh. She has had laser treatment on both eyes to bring down the pressure, each done about 2-3 weeks apart.

My guess is it had less to do with him being a smug know it all and more to do with him being an Optometrist and actually knowing what the hell he is talking about.

[zamler]

Originally Posted by moon

My guess is it had less to do with him being a smug know it all and more to do with him being an Optometrist and actually knowing what the hell he is talking about.

My guess it said person has no idea of the actual situation, and in fact a real professional would realize this and not make stupid assumptions.

[moon]

What always makes me laugh about folks defending these types of treatments is that their defense always seems to be flimsy ancedotal stories that are a. always matched by way more stories of people being helped by actual doctors and b. impossible to verify how true they actually are.

Doctors treat people with gout by telling them to adjust their diet all the time. Chiropracty solves way less problems than fixes but those that believe in it never shut up about it so it seems so great to people who don't know any better.

[moon]

Originally Posted by zamler

My guess it said person has no idea of the actual situation, and in fact a real professional would realize this and not make stupid assumptions.

I have no idea about the situation but it sure doesn't seem like he needs to know the specifics of the situation to know what the condition does or does not cause.

[zamler]

Originally Posted by moon

What always makes me laugh about folks defending these types of treatments is that their defense always seems to be flimsy ancedotal stories that are a. always matched by way more stories of people being helped by actual doctors and b. impossible to verify how true they actually are.

Kinda like how we have no way of verifying how true anything you post is. Like that?

[moon]

Originally Posted by zamler

Kinda like how we have no way of verifying how true anything you post is. Like that?

I guess.....

[photon]

Originally Posted by zamler

My guess it said person has no idea of the actual situation, and in fact a real professional would realize this and not make stupid assumptions.

He replied to what you wrote, you didn't mention glaucoma at all. He didn't make an assumption, he did the opposite of assuming, he based his response on what you wrote.

Don't get upset if people reply to what you write instead of what you mean.

[zamler]

Originally Posted by photon

He replied to what you wrote, you didn't mention glaucoma at all. He didn't make an assumption, he did the opposite of assuming, he based his response on what you wrote.

Don't get upset if people reply to what you write instead of what you mean.

No assumptions? Let me refresh your memory:

Originally Posted by Hesla

1. I think your friend may be a bit confused with what they have.
2. The Laser treatment is likely their treatment for the Macular Degeneration.
3. Your friend likely has formed their own conclusions out of confusion.

3 assumptions right there.

[photon]

1 is not an assumption, it's what he's thinking based on what you reported.
2 is not an assumption, it's what's likely based on his knowledge of what treatments are used for what conditions.
3 is not an assumption, it's what is likely based on the information you gave and his expertise since he's actually in the industry.

An assumption is a statement of certainty without any support. He's not making statements of certainty, he's making comments on what's likely based on what you said and he's supporting them.

Your attitude and response towards Helsa was not warranted.

[zamler]

I don't agree, my response was more than warranted. You don't go around saying someone is "likely confused" about their condition without knowing anything about the person and not knowing all the facts, let alone having never met them, let alone seeing them as a patient in a professional capacity.

[Knut]

Photon and Moon covered it.

There are no assumptions made. I was just Relaying a common problem in all of health care. Communication. No need to take anything personal here, nor is there no need to say I am making "stupid assumptions". It comes down to you forming an opinion based on second hand information about someone's condition, whereas the rest of us subscribe to evidence-based medicine. Me trying to clear up the story only lead to you getting defensive and going on the attack, which usually indicates that nothing will ever change your opinion.

[sworkhard]

Originally Posted by MoneyGuy

I have a compressed vertebrae in my neck. When it goes out, it dramaticlly affects my neck mobility. It will ease after a couple of days but without treatment the problem has not gone away and recurs worse than before. My chiropractors have been a god-send for me.

True, but that part of chiropractic is a subset of what physiotherapy provides. However, I've had chiropractors tell me flat out that I should come in more often so I don't get sick (I use them to help quickly release tension in my upper back and neck, something I usually manage with massage and exercise, but occasionally a chiropractic treatment provides much quicker relief.) I've met some very good chiropractors, and know people who had great success working with them, but the difference between an average chiropractor and a great one, is a great one doesn't pretend that their adjustment are a cure-all, and will provide exercises similar to what a physiotherapist would provide to help recover more permanently (mostly related to lower back pain in this case, not upper back/neck pain where the effects of exercise is limited).

[zamler]

Originally Posted by Hesla

Photon and Moon covered it.

There are no assumptions made. I was just Relaying a common problem in all of health care. Communication.

That is not an issue here. You assumed wrongly that it was and went so far as to say the patient is confused about their condition, which is absolutely false.

No need to take anything personal here, nor is there no need to say I am making "stupid assumptions". It comes down to you forming an opinion based on second hand information about someone's condition, whereas the rest of us subscribe to evidence-based medicine.

I have first hand information about this person, what do you have? Care to share?

They are taking supplements similar to what is being used AREDS2 study (but more comprehensive IMO), and so far they have been able to put the brakes on the progression of their vision loss, something that was not happening previously. They were going blind, and were told as much in so many words (I have sat in on several of the appointments myself, and will do in the future).

Me trying to clear up the story only lead to you getting defensive and going on the attack, which usually indicates that nothing will ever change your opinion.

It has nothing to do with opinion, it has to do with first hand experience, real world.

Supplements prevent macular degeneration
In the first effective treatment for the most common cause of vision loss in the Western World, a new national study finds the condition can be halted by high doses of vitamins and anti-oxidants.

Like I mentioned, IMO she is taking a more comprehensive approach than what I know of this study. She takes the following and other stuff I can't remember off hand (I had to look some of these up for correct spellings). She also eats foods that are known to contain the beneficial antioxidants and fatty acids.

Beta carotene
N-acetyl-cysteine
Glycine
lipoic acid
Bilberry
Ginkgo biloba
Lutein
Lycopene

There are products that are specifically formulated to contain the above and more, I suggested she try those but don't know at this moment if she went that route, it just seemed easier to me than taking separate products that contain the desirable ingredients (and usually have other stuff you might not need or want).

Now please share your first hand information that will help people with macular degeneration, it's an awful thing to have anything that can slow the progression is valuable.

[Knut]

^ her specialist likely recommended that she take the AREDS formulated multi-vitamins with lutein plus omega 3s. That is the standard and it is proven to slow the progression of Macular Degneration. Studies on the others you listed have not shown any significant improvement in AMD or they have not been studied extensively.

The confusion i alluded to was that if she is having on-going laser treatment it is likely for their AMD. If the laser is used for reducing pressure it does not have to be done on an ongoing basis.

I see Macular Degeneration of various forms on an almost daily basis. In early stages (Dry forms) the recommendation is stopping smoking, avoiding UV exposure, eating healthier, taking a AREDS supported supplement like Viitalux with Lutein, taking Omega 3s, and home monitoring with an Amsler Grid.

In later stages (Wet AMD) treatment is based around preventing the leaking of blood vessels behind the eye. This laser therapy and retro-bulbar injections (yes, a needle behind the eye). So far these are the only therapies shown to improve or maintain vision in someone with Wet AMD.

As you can see there are a lot of factors that go into the care of someone with AMD.