Connecticut School Shooting

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Derek Sutton

What about those on the fence here. There is no way to "round up" all the guns out there, so what is the realistic solution? That is what some pro gun lobbyists use as an argument. Saying since there are so many guns out in the public the best thing to do is to arm yourself to defend yourself.

Which is what makes the whole thing such a complicated issue.

obviously step one would be to stop making these things available to the public....no matter how many are all ready out there, it makes zero sense to allow more of them....and i am talking about assualt weapons etc, not all guns as that will never ever be realistic.

30 round clips and all those kinds of things should also be disallowed moving forward...along with hollow point ammo. Ammo should be much much more difficult to acquire as well, its far to easy right now.

Like i said in an earlier post, this most unfortunate event looks like it is taking the shape of a watershed moment in US history, and hopefully the politicians have the wherewithall to take it and make some real changes in a variety of areas that will allow these kinds of things to become less and less common.

[wittynickname]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

America is the greatest. The proof? Gun sales after 20 children slaughtered? Through the roof...A Ke$ha song that's titled "Die Young"?. Plummetting on the charts and being pulled from radio stations. God Bless America, they recognize the real issues...Ke$ha!


http://music-mix.ew.com/2012/12/18/k...young-newtown/

Which is a huge part of the issue. A completely unrelated song that just happens to have a line that could be misconstrued as offensive? Take it off the air! In the US, if you accidentally flash a nipple on television it's a huge fine. If you drop an f-bomb, it's a huge fine.

But shows like CSI and Criminal Minds can show incredible gore and violence. Network, prime time TV can show murderers, rapists, etc, and it gets excellent ratings by and large.

The media is quick to blame video games, but they never want to point the fingers at their parent companies and the programs they air.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by wittynickname

Which is a huge part of the issue. A completely unrelated song that just happens to have a line that could be misconstrued as offensive? Take it off the air! In the US, if you accidentally flash a nipple on television it's a huge fine. If you drop an f-bomb, it's a huge fine.

But shows like CSI and Criminal Minds can show incredible gore and violence. Network, prime time TV can show murderers, rapists, etc, and it gets excellent ratings by and large.

The media is quick to blame video games, but they never want to point the fingers at their parent companies and the programs they air.

Those kinds of shows arent unique to the US though...violence has been a common theme in movies and tv worldwide since the day they were invented.

the difference, i believe, between tv/movies and video games is in the games the person is the "shooter" whereas otherwise its someone else. I listened to a prominent psychologist on the radio yesterday and he was pretty adamant that the games are having an effect on a small minority of the population by desenitizing them and the value of life in their eyes.

Its, again, all part of a very complicated and convoluted problem and solution.

[Azure]

Hollow point ammo is designed to do maximum damage, but it has less penetration power, and as a result if you're firing into a crowd, chances are less bystanders would be hit.

I don't think it really matters whether it is legal or not. I agree with banning the 30 round clip.

I also think that if you own an assault rifle or handgun, you need to apply for a 'transportation license' similar to what we have up here in Canada, and go through training of what the proper methods are for transporting a 'restricted' weapon somewhere.

I'm pretty sure restricted weapons in Canada also need to have a trigger lock as well during transportation. Also something worth looking at.

These are sensible solutions to being more safe with firearms. But it still only covers one side of the problem. At the end of the day the guy only went and shot 26 people because he was mentally screwed up, and not because he had easy access to guns. Sure, if you take away the guns, it doesn't happen, but the guy still has a problem, and he might have taken out his rage in other ways. Of course, when one person is randomly killed, nobody seems to care. Only when an atrocity like this happens, people demand solutions.

[PIMking]

If you're going to talk about banning "clips" please know that ar15's don't take clips so ban away, also you have to have a class III to have or get an assault rifle. The AR15 isn't an Assault rifle

as·sault ri·fle

Noun
A rapid-fire, magazine-fed automatic rifle designed for infantry use.

[wittynickname]

Originally Posted by fotze

I just read the lyrics. I can't see how anyone could take offense in relation to this incident. Are people so fataing ######ed they do not understand words in different order mean different things.

Let's make the most of the night like we're gonna die young

There is nothing offensive about that. WHAT???

People find new and incredible ways for me to hate them.

Oh, I'm not saying it's logical to take it off the air because of that line, nothing about the song is an issue, but that's how this country works. Ignore the gun problem, the problem of perpetually glorifying violence, the mental health issues, the growing distance between upper and lower classes, etc, but let's take a Ke$ha song off the radio, that'll fix it!

[MrMastodonFarm]

oops

[_Q_]

I think the violent movies and video games argument is a load of horse crap. The rest of the world plays these games and watches these movies. Why is it that Americans only can't distinguish between reality and virtual reality? The issue is and has always been the ease of access to guns. Eliminate that and you eliminate gun crimes.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by _Q_

I think the violent movies and video games argument is a load of horse crap. The rest of the world plays these games and watches these movies. Why is it that Americans only can't distinguish between reality and virtual reality? The issue is and has always been the ease of access to guns. Eliminate that and you eliminate gun crimes.

These things DO happen in other parts of the world as well believe it or not...just not with nearly the same frequency.

[puckluck2]

Originally Posted by transplant99

These things DO happen in other parts of the world as well believe it or not...just not with nearly the same frequency.

I think people get that. The frequency is the problem.

[_Q_]

They do, I'm not disputing that. For example Norway or the ecole polytechnique shooting. But in the case of the Norway shooting, the guy was a racist and the Montreal shooting he was a lunatic. I don't think video games had anything to do with it. I think it's just an excuse that doesn't get to the root of the cause.

[Azure]

Well to me blaming video games is exactly like blaming guns.

The root cause is obviously the mental issue. There are reports now that the shooter snapped after finding out his mother was looking into committing him to a mental facility.

But I do think that as a culture we've become WAY to open with violence. I know dozens of families where 8-9 year old kids watch violent movies. Is it going to encourage them to go out and shoot someone? Probably not, but I do not think it is healthy either.

The video game debate was WAY more serious after Columbine. I think a lot of people have accepted the fact NOW that it is just a convenient excuse.

[Ped]

There are two issues here, not one.

Person with mental issues decides to harm people and then has easy access to guns.

You can't automatically cure or lock away all people with mental issues, but you can make a start.

And you can't eliminate all guns but you can sure as hell limit the access.

[Montana Moe]

Originally Posted by Red Slinger

I'm no gun expert and I've never even held one. Nor am I a lawyer or sociologist. So, the following thoughts are just my amateur observations...

Also, this concept of a well-regulated militia is alive and well in the US. It's called the National Guard. If an American wants to protect themselves from the threat of a tyrannical government they don't need to buy guns, a six-pack and their fishing buddies. All they need to do is join the National Guard.

I appreciate your post, you've addressed many of the arguments very succinctly. The only issue I would take is with the above quoted paragraph. The National Guard takes their orders from the Feds these days, so they would likely be on the side of the "tyrannical government" in that scenario.

Unless there was a coup, of course.

[_Q_]

Well see to me blaming video games is completely different than blaming guns. Playing video games does not require any sort of responsibility and shouldn't require licensing, etc. It is after all just entertainment. Violence has always played a central role in entertainment. Romeo and Juliet for example is an extremely violent play, yet nobody thinks of banning stuff like that. Tools that are specifically designed to kill people should be regulated in any type of civilized society. Heck even countries like Egypt have some sort of ban on guns and they have unsurprisingly a lower murder rate than the US. Maybe I'm going off on a tangent here, but how would you feel if people were allowed to carry swords in malls, schools and in their cars? Wouldn't that make you feel uneasy? It seems dangerous, yet for some reason guns don't?

[vektor]

disagree, romeo and juliet is not max payne 3. My 12 year old cousin was playing GTA 4 when it came out, that's not ok. You don't take your kids to rated R movies when they are 12, I hate how kids are allowed to play games that on the box say they shouldn't be. It desensitizes the entire culture to violence.

[Azure]

I guess I'm just more familiar with guns. I've been around them my whole life. They don't make me feel uneasy.

I agree that they should be regulated. I just think it has to be sensible.

I also think that trying to frame the debate around 'gun control'...which is exactly what is happening right now, is pretty sad, when the US has a serious healthcare problem, and as an extension, a serious problem with mental illness.

We've got everyone from Rick Perry saying teachers should carry, to every single news organization in the world running statistics on how gun control can or won't work, to MOST of the replies in this thread being about gun control, and not about what made this guy snap.

Has anyone actually bothered to look at the pills he was taking?

Inside the piece though they report Adam Lanza's uncle said the boy was prescribed Fanapt, a controversial anti-psychotic medicine.

Fanapt was the subject of a Bloomberg report when it passed regulators, after previously getting the "nonapproval" stamp. Why wasn't it approved, you might ask?

There are many reasons, some of which have to do with competing entities in a competitive market.

The main cited reason for the rejection was that it caused severe heart problems in enough patients to cause a stir.

Maybe more importantly, though, Fanapt is one of a many drugs the FDA pumped out with an ability to exact the opposite desired effect on people: that is, you know, inducing rather than inhibiting psychosis and aggressive behavior.

http://www.businessinsider.com/adam-...#ixzz2FT6xhKDo

[_Q_]

Originally Posted by vektor

disagree, romeo and juliet is not max payne 3. My 12 year old cousin was playing GTA 4 when it came out, that's not ok. You don't take your kids to rated R movies when they are 12, I hate how kids are allowed to play games that on the box say they shouldn't be. It desensitizes the entire culture to violence.

It might not deliver the violence in the same way Max Payne or GTA do, but the central issues are still there. Two families don't like each other and end up killing each other because of it. To me it says that murder is OK if you're mad enough at someone else.

Like I said earlier, we have a very similar culture in Canada to the US. We watch the same news, watch the same movies and play the same video games. Most of Europe is also similar to the US in this way, yet mass shootings don't occur at the same rate as they do in the US because we all have stricter gun policies.

[chemgear]

Originally Posted by Azure

Well to me blaming video games is exactly like blaming guns.

I have a hard time even comparing the two personally (and full disclosure, I certainly play a good amount of video games).

But I can't see somebody attacking people with a physical box of video game cases/disks and doing much damage. Bertuzzied is probably better equipped to talk about it, but it reminds me of how comic books were vilified decades ago for "causing" violence, sloth, communism, teen pregnancy, pimples, masturbation, etc. Heck, the US government held full congressional hearings in the 1950's over comic books and their terrible influence.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by chemgear

I have a hard time even comparing the two personally (and full disclosure, I certainly play a good amount of video games).

But I can't see somebody attacking people with a physical box of video game cases/disks and doing much damage. Bertuzzied is probably better equipped to talk about it, but it reminds me of how comic books were vilified decades ago for "causing" violence, sloth, communism, teen pregnancy, pimples, masturbation, etc. Heck, the US government held full congressional hearings in the 1950's over comic books and their terrible influence.

I never said they were equal comparisons. I said blaming one or the other and ignoring the actual mental health problem is the problem.