Living together before marriage

[Bring_Back_Shantz]

I know it's a little off the topic, but I'm curious as to how much rube doesn't like marriage.

What would you do if she asked you to marry her? What if it was important to her, and she saw you saying no as a deal breaker?

I'm not trying to make a point or anything, I'm just curious, as I've never really met anyone who "Doesn't believe in marriage". I've met a lot of folks who don't want to get married, but that changes pretty quickly when they meet the right person.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by MacDaddy77

I don't get the "it's just a piece of paper" argument to not getting married.

Again, I come from a home where marriage has had pretty negative effect on several lives. My issues with marriage have very little to do with the insignificance of it, and more to do with the horrors surrounding failed marriages.

Every woman grows up picturing thier wedding day and it's my opinion that guys who use this are being totaly selfish towards what 99.9 % of the women out there want, they all want the "big day" and if it's "only a piece of paper" then what's holding you back from giving the women you love 1 day to be all about her! (and a little about you!!!).

Every guy grows up picturing himself nailing two girls at the same time, and it's my opinion that girlfriends who won't engage in a threesome are being totally selfish to what 99.9% of men out there want. They all want the "big night" and if it's "just another woman" then what's holding you back from giving the guy you love 1 night to be all about him?! (and a little about you!!! .

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by Bring_Back_Shantz

I know it's a little off the topic, but I'm curious as to how much rube doesn't like marriage.

What would you do if she asked you to marry her? What if it was important to her, and she saw you saying no as a deal breaker?

I'm not trying to make a point or anything, I'm just curious, as I've never really met anyone who "Doesn't believe in marriage". I've met a lot of folks who don't want to get married, but that changes pretty quickly when they meet the right person.

I shouldn't say she doesn't want to get married because she does. She's a woman and it's wired into most girls from the day they first get a Barbie and Ken. This pretty much the reason I've never been involved in very serious relationships. I am against getting married 100%, and that's a stance that will never change.

I told her pretty much as soon as we started getting serious how I felt about marriage. She knows that if that's what she wants, then she needs to look elsewhere. I really appreciate that she is making that sacrifice for me, and there will be a time when I'll probably have to repay her in some way.

Marriage is a deal breaker for me. I feel that if it is that important to someone that they make it a deal breaker for us, then we probably weren't meant to be together in the first place.

[troutman]

Originally Posted by rubecube

Again, I come from a home where marriage has had pretty negative effect on several lives. My issues with marriage have very little to do with the insignificance of it, and more to do with the horrors surrounding failed marriages.

Common Law relationships can fail just as badly as marriages.

[MacDaddy77]

Originally Posted by rubecube

Again, I come from a home where marriage has had pretty negative effect on several lives. My issues with marriage have very little to do with the insignificance of it, and more to do with the horrors surrounding failed marriages.

So what you really want to avoid is having kids? Legally since you are in a common-law relationship you are responsible for everything just as if you were married.

The biggest negative factor in any relationship is when there are children involved. this is probably because you can't just divide everything and each be on you bitter way.

I am by no means trying to give you advice or suggest you do something. You only get one life so live it however you please, however you do have your g/f and her family to consider and you should take their feelings into account since everything you do effects them in some way.

[Bring_Back_Shantz]

Originally Posted by rubecube

I shouldn't say she doesn't want to get married because she does. She's a woman and it's wired into most girls from the day they first get a Barbie and Ken. This pretty much the reason I've never been involved in very serious relationships. I am against getting married 100%, and that's a stance that will never change.

I told her pretty much as soon as we started getting serious how I felt about marriage. She knows that if that's what she wants, then she needs to look elsewhere. I really appreciate that she is making that sacrifice for me, and there will be a time when I'll probably have to repay her in some way.

Marriage is a deal breaker for me. I feel that if it is that important to someone that they make it a deal breaker for us, then we probably weren't meant to be together in the first place.

Again, I'm not trying to be a dick or make a point, so please don't take what I say as anything but sincere questions.

I take it from your previous posts that you're anti marriage because you think it's caused members of your family, and yourself, a great deal of pain. I think this is a bit of flawed reasoning. It isn't the marriage that caused the pain, it was the breakup and divorce.

A lot of folks subscribe to the "It's just a piece of paper" philosophy, and if that's the case, why would you be unwilling to sing some piece of paper to maintain a relationship with someone you love?

Does that piece of paper really make ending a relationship that much more devestating? I'd argue no.
If you've been living together long enough, the breakup can have just as many financial complications as a divorce.
If there are children involved, then I really hope there is no difference at all between the two.

I guess what I'm trying to say is, that if you're anti-marriage because you don't want the marriage to end badly, then I'd argue that you're not anti marriage, but anti commitment, as a breakup after years of living together isn't much easier than a divorce.

If you're in the "I don't need a piece of paper" camp, presumably because you think the paper is irrelvant and inimportant, then why would that same piece of paper be a deal breaker if someone you loved really wanted it?

[DOK]

I've got to say here....you are 23, a lot can change in the coming years. Yes, your stance is strong and hard, I respect that, but my life has changed substantially in the last ten years +

23 is still young to consider marriage and kids, considering a lot are still in school and finding out about life. Waiting until 30 to start thinking marriage and kids isn't far fetched.

Still, if your stuck on it, good on you, no harm done just the same. Just be aware that kids and common law status can happen even though you hate the prospect. (not just common law status but a break up after 1, 2 or 3 years together can get out of control)

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by troutman

Common Law realtionships can fail just as badly as marriages.

Common law split-ups more often then not involve little to no legal hassles unless you own something together. There's a joke somewhere in here about a lawyer advocating marriage .

Originally Posted by MacDaddy77

So what you really want to avoid is having kids? Legally since you are in a common-law relationship you are responsible for everything just as if you were married.

The biggest negative factor in any relationship is when there are children involved. this is probably because you can't just divide everything and each be on you bitter way.

I am by no means trying to give you advice or suggest you do something. You only get one life so live it however you please, however you do have your g/f and her family to consider and you should take their feelings into account since everything you do effects them in some way.

I have taken her feelings into account. I've told her I would completely understand if she wanted to leave because she needed a wedding. I think her dad needs to accept my beliefs and the fact that I treat his daughter better than 90% of other guys out there who maybe do believe in marriage. You'd think that would be what's important to him.

[greyshep]

Just my opinion, but it really doesnt sound like you are really all that committed to this person for the long haul.

Seems like you just want to have a good time and let the chips fall where they may. And you expect her father to be ok with that.

Thats fine if thats the way you roll, but you need to respect her fathers rules if you really want to show some commitment here.

[troutman]

Originally Posted by rubecube

Common law split-ups more often then not involve little to no legal hassles unless you own something together.

Guess again. Some lawyers won't touch C/L files - too messy. The law is clear on matrimonial break-down, and not clear at all in C/L.

[Winsor_Pilates]

Originally Posted by rubecube

You don't think I've been doing this for the past two years? I've made every effort to try and get to know the guy and show him I respect him and is daugther, but I'm not permanently in his debt. Furthermore, if I don't plan on getting married then he needs to deal with it because it's mine and my girlfriend's relationship - not his.

By the things you've wrote in this thread, I don't think you've been making the type of effort most parents would expect.
I think you have a lower standard of what that effort should be than most, but I guess that's fair for you to have.
It's also fair for me to think your effort and attitude sucks, and side with the dad.
Your last sentence here sums it up with the relationship not being his. I don't think any relationship can work, if you don't try to make it work with the greater family/friends. The relationship is yours and your GF's, but you don't live in a bubble and it's only gonna hurt your relationship to act like you do.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by rubecube

Common law split-ups more often then not involve little to no legal hassles unless you own something together. There's a joke somewhere in here about a lawyer advocating marriage .

It just depends on the people involved. Marriages can break up fairly smoothly if the people involved allow it. Just like a common law partner can make your life a living hell and drain your finances.

Maybe more common law relationships break up more smoothly because the people involved tend to be less committed? Just something to consider....

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by Bring_Back_Shantz

Again, I'm not trying to be a dick or make a point, so please don't take what I say as anything but sincere questions.

I take it from your previous posts that you're anti marriage because you think it's caused members of your family, and yourself, a great deal of pain. I think this is a bit of flawed reasoning. It isn't the marriage that caused the pain, it was the breakup and divorce.

Nobody gets married believing they're going to get divorced. Life happens and I'd like to be able to keep things as uncomplicated as possible.

A lot of folks subscribe to the "It's just a piece of paper" philosophy, and if that's the case, why would you be unwilling to sing some piece of paper to maintain a relationship with someone you love?

It's not just a piece of paper. Marriage, especially weddings, are also expensive. There's a tonne of religious dogma behind marriage that I, as an atheist, want no part of. I also believe it to be a pretty outdated tradition. Marriage has also been used as a tool for discrimination in many areas of the world. I have a lot reasons to be against marriage.

Does that piece of paper really make ending a relationship that much more devestating? I'd argue no.
If you've been living together long enough, the breakup can have just as many financial complications as a divorce.
If there are children involved, then I really hope there is no difference at all between the two.

I guess what I'm trying to say is, that if you're anti-marriage because you don't want the marriage to end badly, then I'd argue that you're not anti marriage, but anti commitment, as a breakup after years of living together isn't much easier than a divorce.

Disagree. It's certainly a lot easier to keep your affairs separate in a common-law relationship. Yes it can be just as complicated as marriage if you let it become that way.

[Bring_Back_Shantz]

The more and more I think about this the more intrigued I become.

Rube,
You don't plan on marrying this girl, but I presume by the way you've been posting that you do see yourself with her for the long haul. Am I correct in this assumption?

If I am, what are the plans in the future? Do you plan to have joint bank accounts? Buy a place together? Maybe have kids? For all intents and purposes be married?

If thats the case (it may be already for all I know), then I'd go back to my original question of why a piece of paper would be a deal breaker. Surely a breakup at that point isn't any more complicated by it.

If you don't plan to do any of those things, and for all intents and purposes to keep everything seperate for the rest of your lives, then I'd say if it was my daughter, I probably wouldn't be to warm to the idea either. I'd see that as more of a room mate she's sleeping with than a partner.

The fact of the matter is, that most dads will warm up to a guy when he's show a commitment to his daughter. Whether that's a proposal or something different depends on the circumstances and the dad. Maybe he hasn't preceived this commitment from you because he regards marriage as the only option, but maybe it's because it isn't concretely there. I don't know your situation so I can't comment on the likelyhood of either, but it may be something to think about.

[Ren]

Suck it up and take the offer to sleep on the couch for 3 days. The more you put yourself between your girlfriend and her family the more likely it is she's going to dump you.

[mikey_the_redneck]

Originally Posted by Winsor_Pilates

By the things you've wrote in this thread, I don't think you've been making the type of effort most parents would expect.
I think you have a lower standard of what that effort should be than most, but I guess that's fair for you to have.
It's also fair for me to think your effort and attitude sucks, and side with the dad.
Your last sentence here sums it up with the relationship not being his. I don't think any relationship can work, if you don't try to make it work with the greater family/friends. The relationship is yours and your GF's, but you don't live in a bubble and it's only gonna hurt your relationship to act like you do.

Where is the effort from the girls parents here?
Why is it that rubecube has to make all the concessions and kiss up to his girlfriends father? If they are going to get along in the long run, rubecube and the ol' man will both have to take one step towards eachother to find acceptance.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by troutman

Guess again. Some lawyers won't touch C/L files - too messy. The law is clear on matrimonial break-down, and not clear at all in C/L.

I'll take your word for it since you're easily more of an expert than I am. I only have firsthand experience and testimonials to go by. Do you have any links or anything on this kind of stuff?

[Phaneuf3]

Originally Posted by rubecube

Marriage, especially weddings, are also expensive.

Beyond the wedding commissioner fee which is pretty cheap, weddings are as cheap or as expensive as you want to make them.

If you have enough money to burn to spend 3 nights in a hotel to avoid sleeping on a couch, I'm sure you could afford something pretty nice.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by Winsor_Pilates

By the things you've wrote in this thread, I don't think you've been making the type of effort most parents would expect.
I think you have a lower standard of what that effort should be than most, but I guess that's fair for you to have.
It's also fair for me to think your effort and attitude sucks, and side with the dad.
Your last sentence here sums it up with the relationship not being his. I don't think any relationship can work, if you don't try to make it work with the greater family/friends. The relationship is yours and your GF's, but you don't live in a bubble and it's only gonna hurt your relationship to act like you do.

Really? I attend all of her immediate and extended family functions with her and her parents, attend every Holiday dinner, take her father to sporting events and golfing. Oh, and I also gave up my job, friends, family, and a city I loved living in to move with her to Victoria so she could be closer to her family. What else should I do to show this guy that I'm committed to his daughter?

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by mikey_the_redneck

Where is the effort from the girls parents here?
Why is it that rubecube has to make all the concessions and kiss up to his girlfriends father? If they are going to get along in the long run, rubecube and the ol' man will both have to take one step towards eachother to find acceptance.

He's been invited there as a guest for 3 nights... I think that is nice gesture on the part of the parents.

The fact is, he is the one trying to be integrated into his partners family unit in this case. Things like freedom of speech and expression don't exist in that situation.