Craig Conroy Needs to Pick a Lane

[Hot_Flatus]

Do not understand this thread.

Conroy chose a lane - rebuild through the draft (and he's done a damn good job of it). He even moved his starting goalie! Wolf arrived and was too good. This has changed things to the point where finishing in the bottom 5 isn't feasible.

The team wasn't supposed to be competitive last year, and isn't supposed to be good this year either. They might be competitive again, but all in all, they are on track to start competing seriously in a year or two with the cap space and stockpile of young prospects on hand. I would argue this franchise has never had the cupboards this full of legitimate, NHL level talent (~15 current prospects could easily play in the league. 4-6 of them are high level depending how you look at it) so what more should a fan want?

[Macindoc]

Conroy refused to use any assets to bring in help at the trade deadline in spite of being in or at the edge of a playoff position, he traded every player who was 25 or older and on an expiring contract (and is waiting for whatever price he believes Andersson is worth as an asset), he signed no overpriced UFAs, and he trusted an undersized rookie to be the team's #1 goaltender, without anyone in the organization who was close to a 1A to make it a tandem. Is the lane not clear? It's not his fault that the team outperformed expectations.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by SutterBrother

Are we pretending there's a plan to rebuild?

Craig Conroy tried to sign Lindholm before trading him. That's your indication that we lack direction.

Oh, was that too long ago to count? Ok, how about the fact Rasmus Andersson is still playing for this team? Oh, we couldn't trade him because we were trying to be first round fodder for the Oilers. Great.

How about "we can't strip it down because the rookies need good examples!"

Spoiler alert - Wolf and Coronato are better players than the "examples". They don't GAF about our sad-sack "culture" and captain who has never accomplished anything of note in his lengthy LENGTHY career with one franchise...

Pulling hard for 9th overall in the west again. Just like the last 30 years.

(probably time for a coffee)

If more angry and more sardonic guaranteed a win in message board forums you'd have us beat!

[Jason14h]

Conroy chose a lane - rebuild through the draft (and he's done a damn good job of it). He even moved his starting goalie! Wolf arrived and was too good. This has changed things to the point where finishing in the bottom 5 isn't feasible.

Did he really commit to this lane though?

He traded a 2nd and Equiv 3rd for Frost and Farabee

He wanted players back vs strictly picks in most his trades to remain more competitive.

It's also been rumored he has looked at trading picks for young established players who can help now and in the future.

We've had 13 draft picks in the last 2 draft - Which is 13th most - So middleish of the pack

Here's the teams with more

Anaheim
Buffalo
Chicago
Columbus
Detroit
Montreal
NJ
Ottawa
Philly
SJ
Seattle
St.L (13)

These teams have also had higher picks then Calgary the last 2 years (Didn't help we didnt have our pick which is not Conroy's fault at all)

So we arent really building through the draft more then the other rebuilding teams. In fact - We are building less through the draft since Conroy arrived then those teams.

This is what I find peculiar about the strategy. Fans and Media seem to agree the Flames have been (on paper) killing the draft. If this is our competitive advantage (great drafting) why aren't we leaning into it?

Why are we moving picks for the Farabee and Frost's of the league vs using our competitive advantage to find our next generation of stars. Why are we trying to get mid level players vs just more picks?

Even if we arent tearing down, the failure to acquire more draft picks the last 2 years while also trading some is a failure to me.

[Ba'alzamon]

https://forum.calgarypuck.com/showpo...&postcount=126

[ThatHighGuy]

My only gripe with Conroy so far is our abundance of depth forwards that are potentially stealing spots for the young deserving guys. Not wanting to lose Kerins, Kuznestov, Grushnikov, etc. on waivers so we'll see what happens in the next few days

[HighLifeMan]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

We've had 13 draft picks in the last 2 draft - Which is 13th most - So middleish of the pack

Even if we arent tearing down, the failure to acquire more draft picks the last 2 years while also trading some is a failure to me.

Huh? We have drafted 18 times in the last two drafts.. including 10 times in the top 3 rounds. We have another 5 picks in the first three rounds of the upcoming draft class as well.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by HighLifeMan

Huh? We have drafted 18 times in the last two drafts.. including 10 times in the top 3 rounds. We have another 5 picks in the first three rounds of the upcoming draft class as well.

Yeah, Flames had 4 firsts in the last two years, plus 3 2nds and 3 3rds. That's pretty good (I suspect most coaches would swap a few late rounders for an extra second).

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by Rhett44

I know you're about to get eviscerated on here, but I agree with you to an extent. Many of us don't want a retool, but it is what we are going to get and what the message has always been.

So in that sense, the Flames have picked a lane. Even if I don't agree with it fully.

Conroy has picked a lane, for better or worse it appears to be full blown rebuild. No team in the cap era has traded away more veterans for only futures and traded for almost no veterans to replace those veterans. Guys may not like the full rebuild that is going on but it is happening. The only thing different that Conroy could have done to really make it a full rebuild would be to trade the guys who are preventing the team from really sucking (Wolf and Coronato come to mind) but he has not done that.

[Jason14h]

Originally Posted by HighLifeMan

Huh? We have drafted 18 times in the last two drafts.. including 10 times in the top 3 rounds. We have another 5 picks in the first three rounds of the upcoming draft class as well.

You’re correct - I’ve not sure what got summarized in my Ai draft pick count - BUT it screwed it up for all teams . My bad - this is what I get for not checking my work !

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

Did he really commit to this lane though?

He traded a 2nd and Equiv 3rd for Frost and Farabee

...

Why are we moving picks for the Farabee and Frost's of the league vs using our competitive advantage to find our next generation of stars. Why are we trying to get mid level players vs just more picks?

Even if we arent tearing down, the failure to acquire more draft picks the last 2 years while also trading some is a failure to me.

Oh noes, he traded a 2nd and "equiv" 3rd (actually a 7th plus a 28 year old cap dump and Pelletier, who is now 24 and dropped in production) for 24 and 25 year old players, when we could have drafted guys who would play at 24 or 25 with those picks. And of course, you could never trade those guys for a 2nd and 3rd.

Seriously, it was a 2nd and players Calgary didn't want for two potentially valuable assets. Calgary got overall younger with that move and gave up one meaningful pick.

[Bingo]

Yeah one deal for mid 20s players doesn't undo a huge run of collecting draft capital.

Lane has been picked.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by HighLifeMan

Huh? We have drafted 18 times in the last two drafts.. including 10 times in the top 3 rounds. We have another 5 picks in the first three rounds of the upcoming draft class as well.

So here's the corrected list from Jason's post

Calgary: 18

Anaheim: 19
Buffalo: 17
Chicago: 16
Columbus: 12
Detroit: 16
Montreal: 19
NJ: 14
Ottawa: 12
Philly: 16
SJ: 18
Seattle: 14
St.L (13): 12

So the flames are tied for the 2nd most draft picks in the last 2 years, assuming there aren't other teams outside those ones above (I didn't go through the entire league).

So what's the issue here? Obviously the lack of HIGH 1st round picks is the remaining piece, but beyond that?

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

You’re correct - I’ve not sure what got summarized in my Ai draft pick count - BUT it screwed it up for all teams . My bad - this is what I get for not checking my work !

Ah yes. AI for some reason sucks at this stuff. I've tried to use it to ask questions just like this, and it fails. Not sure why because the info is out there and easy to access. But it consistently makes mistakes.

[blankall]

Wolf is here. He's too good to let the Flames fall into a lottery pick position. The Flames have gotten lucky. They have Wolf, a Calder candidate, and Parekh, a top 5 prospect in the league. Most teams would have to take about 4 years to get two prospects of that quality.

This is for the best. Tanking and rebuilding, unless you draft a McDavid level prospect, isn't all that effective in the NHL anymore. You're far more likely to end up as Buffalo than prime-Crosby years Pittsburgh.

Conroy does have a plan. People are just upset that the plan is not to totally burn it down. Not really possible with Wolf and Parekh here now.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by ForeverFlameFan

What is a rebuild then when you trade Toffoli, Zadorov, Markstrom, Hanifin, Lindholm, and potentially Andersson?

I seriously don't get it around here. That's a rebuild. People are just mad our franchise goalie didn't allow us to bottom out. I was a big fan of last season and constantly in position to making the playoffs. Let Conroy cook.

Playoff experience for the youngsters > lottery odds of a pick we likely lose.

It is incredible to look at Conroy’s record and think “this guy is not rebuilding, he is retooling. Look at all the veteran players he has acquired to try to win now”. Like just incredible.

[Jason14h]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Oh noes, he traded a 2nd and "equiv" 3rd (actually a 7th plus a 28 year old cap dump and Pelletier, who is now 24 and dropped in production) for 24 and 25 year old players, when we could have drafted guys who would play at 24 or 25 with those picks. And of course, you could never trade those guys for a 2nd and 3rd.

Seriously, it was a 2nd and players Calgary didn't want for two potentially valuable assets. Calgary got overall younger with that move and gave up one meaningful pick.

They didn’t get younger. If they didn’t make the trade and traded Kuz for the 3rd they wouldn’t have any of those guys , would have 2 more prospects , and 10 mil in extra cap room (which doesn’t really matter this year but is still real
Money and may matter in coming years )

If the lane is “build through the draft” you aren’t making the move Conroy has .

I guess the lane is get younger and hope middle 6 players break out . It may work - we’ll see

And if the plan is to trade Frost and Farabee in future years for picks ….. what was the point in the first place ? Make us just good enough to get worse picks , and push the eventual arrival of those draft picks out multiple years ?

[Bingo]

I just don't live in this world where every decision has to be made the exact same way or you're no longer following some magic recipe.

Asset management averages probably says a 2nd and a 3rd for two guys in their mid 20s playing under a stifling coach have a good chance to pop in an new environment.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

They didn’t get younger. If they didn’t make the trade and traded Kuz for the 3rd they wouldn’t have any of those guys , would have 2 more prospects , and 10 mil in extra cap room (which doesn’t really matter this year but is still real
Money and may matter in coming years )

If the lane is “build through the draft” you aren’t making the move Conroy has .

I guess the lane is get younger and hope middle 6 players break out . It may work - we’ll see

And if the plan is to trade Frost and Farabee in future years for picks ….. what was the point in the first place ? Make us just good enough to get worse picks , and push the eventual arrival of those draft picks out multiple years ?

Strongly suspect the plan with Frost and Farabee is that one or both work out and you have a good player or players for 7-10 years (with a likely higher ceiling than a 2nd and a 3rd) or they do not perfectly work out or you cannot resign them and they at some point in the future you get more than a 2nd and a 3rd for them in a trade. They both probably have 7-8 productive NHL years left so it is not like they are assets that will not be good when the Flames have a window again.

I have a hard time seeing a third option where they are not worth at least a 2nd and a 3rd in the future.

[Jason14h]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

I have a hard time seeing a third option where they are not worth at least a 2nd and a 3rd in the future.

That’s because you’re a Flames fan and WANT it to work out (nothing wrong with optimism).

Philly clearly saw a 3rd option where they were not worth keeping over a 2nd and 3rd (Plus the salaries they are paid which is a big part)

Farabee got 6!! Points in 33 games here making 5$ million for 3 more seasons

Frost got 12 in 33 games

These are horrible numbers for what they are getting paid , and realistically they aren’t in development years - they are reclamation projects

If they reproduce what we saw in almost half a season here this year they are untradeable contracts, and both would just be gone when their contracts expire