Could they not find a big enough dump truck of money to get Joaquin Phoenix as the Joker in this universe? His take would’ve fit in. As it is it’s just… another Joker.
I was going to speculate this as a reason they possibly withheld the scene, but I just don't think the Joaquin Phoenix Joker fits here. More of an antihero, whereas this new Batman universe will be looking at a deeply disturbed and terrifying Joker- like this scene
Does the release of this clip force their hand anyway?
Could they not find a big enough dump truck of money to get Joaquin Phoenix as the Joker in this universe? His take would’ve fit in. As it is it’s just… another Joker.
I found it weird how like… Catwoman calls him vengeance 3 or 4 times and one of the bad guys at the end mocks him saying “I’m vengeance” — so that wasn’t just a cool thing he came up with in the moment to freak those guys out? He goes around saying it all the time and everyone knows it’s his catch phrase? Makes it kinda lame.
It wasn't clear to me the bad guy knew he said that. I think it was meant to be a moment of self reflection from him, as a "hero" how different from the villains is he really. That's kind of the narrative that works best for the Batman character.
I don’t know if the timeline adds up. Joker appeared to take place in the 80s.
It was a bit hard to tell what era the Batman was supposed to exist in. It had very 90s vibes. Just looked it up, and they outright stated the movie takes place 2017-2024.
I do like the Keoghan Joker a lot. He really nails the personal relationship with Batman aspect. I'm not so sure that Phoenix would be able to get that.
Pattison was great as Batman & Bruce Wayne
Kravitz was great
Ferrell was great
Atmosphere/tone was on point
Riddler/Paul Dano was great until the interrogation scene and then the entire thing fell apart. When he started to sing Ave Maria it almost ruined the entire movie.
The forced Joker part was terrible. Probably studio forced.
The climactic scene with the flooding/arena just didn't fit the tone of the movie.
Warning: Rant. Not because I hated it but because I think I could have loved it.
I'm conflicted. I had high expectations that it did not live up to based on the source material which I'm not sure is fair to use in a critique, but a lot of what made it good was the source material that it didn't flesh out. Think Alfred being blown up. If you knew nothing of Batman this scene meant near next to nothing as they barely spoke.
It would be like if you they started with Rocky III and you saw Mickey die, it just wouldn't have the same impact without Rocky and Rocky II. But because it's Alfred and we know Batman we know how important that bomb is.
Except...then it actually doesn't matter because Alfred ends up being a metahuman who can survive bombs that blow up floors. He can also solve riddles that the greatest detective can't. So I don't see why we need Batman, just get this Alfred out there to clean up Gotham in a night.
And then even the aftermath of the bomb doesn't really matter. Thomas Wayne was corrupt? Actually no, he just loved his wife and was stupid.
We have Joker minions who don't know who Batman is? A low-level Gordon (not Commissioner) just let's a crazed vigilante walk through a crime scene of the the commissioner and no cop speaks up? Crooked or clean, every cop should have shown a huge problem with that. And the killing of a commissioner would warrant having someone more than a lieutenant in charge of the crime scene.
Like have them do the crime scenes sans Batman and get the envelope and have some random cop ask how they going to get it to him and then have Gordon look to the shadows somewhere say "shouldn't be hard" and have Batman come out of it. Now you got Batman being ninja and Gordon being the best cop to realize he was there without having to resort to "it's a comic book movie who cares" to defend something so stupid as them allowing a criminal vigilante hated by most of the people there taint the evidence of the most important murder since the Waynes. And what's worse it they bring this up like 2 hours into the movie after another crime scene. It's weird and little things like this and the explosions that could blow up buildings but not hurt plot armored characters really took me out of the the grounded story they were going for.
I really liked the Riddler's character. I wish they were able to give his minions a more compelling backstory, whether it was incels or white nationalists that Riddler was using as a means (especially with the running mayor being a person of colour and could have her a bit of an AOC hate from the far right) or even anarchists or the dreaded antifa. I understand though that in doing so the movie be labelled as "woke" or some ####. But without doing that you just get a cliched third act with Batman saving Gotham from some random goons and disaster that came out of nowhere.
I was really hoping that this movie would be one that you would need to watch again after Riddler's clues come together to see what we missed (think Memento or The Usual Suspects). But nah, it was a generic blow up the dam out of nowhere attack.
The chemistry between Selina/Catwoman and Batman was also out of place given that Selina was looking for her friend who I first thought was her lover but then seemed to be more of a surrogate mother-child, older sister-younger sister, relationship I guess? Either way her and Batman making out seemed in poor taste as they are trying to save her (or just found out she died).
Tone, style, overall plot, I would rate high. Execution though poor. If you want to turn into a popcorn flick comic book movie it's above par but if you're looking for a smart detective noir with Batman finally showing his amazing detective work (DETECTIVE COMICS afterall), you'll be letdown.
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The shotgun directly to the chest, with no pellets hitting his exposed face was a bit much. Even with armor that would likely shatter his chest.
The bomb that blew up in the church just a foot away from Batman's mostly exposed face should have been the end of him. Luckily he's almost as strong as Alfred.
Also a bunch of cops taking a passed out man who just survived a bomb to the precinct instead of a hospital? And keeping all his weapons on him? The mask is one thing, I can see them arguing over it as they did. But like just another "this doesn't make any sense" moments that happened every 15 minutes in the movie.
I kinda regret not seeing this in theaters now after seeing it.
Quite enjoyed it, wasn't expecting a film so dark as I tried not to find out much about it so took a little to get into it.
Very surprised at how much I liked Pattinson's Batman (less so his Bruce Wayne though I do like the overall different take). Kravitz was great, Wright was good.
The only thing I didn't like as much as I'd been hoping is the score. Maybe because I didn't see it in theaters.. but while I did like it it didn't have enough variation, so felt a bit repetitive (I mean yeah themes are themes because they repeat but there needs to be other things too). Or maybe that's just a consequence of the movie being too long.
Will definitely watch any followup.
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I still have a hour left, but so far I really like it. I think the overall tone is great and it is unique to the other films for sure.
It has the cinematic shots of the Nolan trilogy but also lots of the gothic elements in the original Burton films.
I think his Wayne is a bit to much, but I appreciate that he is trying something unique. His Batman though is awesome. Might be my favourite iteration yet.
The flight suit scene/angle really threw me for a loop, it seemed just completely out of place. Catwoman's toque is a bit much to, literally does nothing to conceal her identity.
On top of that, it is to long. It could be about 30 minutes shorter at least. If a die hard DC fan can't finish it in one sitting, your movie is to long.
Other than that I don't have many complaints. Hopefully they stick the landing.
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Thought it was great, one of my favourite Batman movies. Honestly it could've been an HBO mini series and it reminded me a lot of the Telltale Batman video games series, which is a huge compliment.
It was slow, had to watch it in separate chunks the last two nights but no complaints. Paul Dana was especially great.
Enjoyed it. Really liked that he wasn't Super-Batman like every other version. Pattison doesn't seem to be afraid to immerse himself in a role rather than playing a version of himself.
The seawall was stupid.
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The seawall thing was silly, and I can't unsee emo Bruce Wayne (although Pattinson's Batman was good).
I might be in the minority feeling that Dano's performance was essentially meth Joker. The prison interrogation scene was some powerful overacting and I couldn't wait for it to end. Just couldn't take him seriously throughout the film.
Otherwise I really enjoyed the layered, detective-style Batman story, and you could see the film pay homage to almost every Batman film before it.
My favorite was the score, but Something in the Way was always one of my favorite Nirvana songs and the guitar riffs at certain points really set that gothic, brooding mood.
EDIT: Also want to add that the Batmobile tease and reveal was brilliantly done.
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Watched it on streaming, and I'm quite happy I didn't pay for the theater. Not because it was a bad film, in fact it was quite alright, even good in many ways. It's even probably my favorite Batman movie in terms of what kind of ideas would I like to see in a Batman movie.
It's just that as an actual movie it's kind of meh, and I'm glad I didn't put my prime entertainment dollars towards supporting more of this.
Ultimately it's Just Another Batman movie and we already have a million Batman movies or movies with Batman in them, and it didn't feel fresh at all to me. The memes about "darker grittier Batman" feel very accurate.
It also has the problem that it's not deep enough to be really interesting to talk about, but not entertaining enough to be worth the investment in time, especially at this length. There are so many better movies coming out now that it's very easy to recommend people putting off seeing this and catching it "maybe later".
As for the visuals, I thought the discussion around AAA-games in the 2000's already settled that making everything brown and black is NOT a great way to make things feel dark and serious, but I guess the makers of this movie aren't tapped in to that side of popular culture. It was a very competent and skilled version of that, but it was still very much just that, and it wasn't that exciting 15 years ago.
Then again that 2000's color palette goes really well with the decades old hot takes about Batman this movie flirts with. Ooh Batman is problematic. Yes, we know. Everyone knows. Please say something more about it than what we talked about with my friends in school almost 30 years ago.
Pattinson is good, but kind of wasted in this role if you ask me. Batman spends so much of the movie just brooding that I almost started to wish they had hired someone less perfect for the role, just to insert some contrast to the character.
Last edited by Itse; 04-24-2022 at 10:11 AM.
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