Friedman: Flames have begun extension talks with Gaudreau & Eichel speculation

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by 1qqaaz

It kind of bugs me when Friedman says the Flames don't have enough interesting pieces to acquire Eichel, then he goes on to say Anaheim does.

Are pieces like 3rd OA, Zegras, Drysdale really more interesting that Tkachuk?
Personally, I don't think so. Matthew Tkachuk is only 23, yet has had 3 years of high production.

7+ years of the former vs. 2 years of the latter.

Originally Posted by Mattman

Does a 3 way trade with St. Louis, Buffalo and Calgary work?

Calgary: Eichel, Tarasenko
Buffalo: Monahan + any picks or prospects from St. Louis
St. Louis: Tkachuk

Something around that but each team is essentially taking some sort of risk in the players they get with St. Louis adding more to get rid of Tarasenko and get the better player.

The concept is sound, but it would have to be some premium pieces for STL. I think an Eichel deal will be too complicated to be a formal 3-way trade, but for CGY to do it I think it would have to two-step trade:

Tkachuk for Tarasenko + Kyrou/Thomas + picks/prospects
Monahan for good youth/futures and an AAV>$$ contract (not many obvious options w/o NTCs - Ladd, Quick, and Schmidt are some random possibilities)

Then Andersson + AAV>$$ + futures for Eichel.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

I would love to see a Gaudreau signing and Eichel trade just to see ostrich sized egg on Francis's face.

He will spin it that Gaudreau knew the Flyers would not sign him and he wouldn't get a better deal anywhere else. Then he will spin how we overpaid for Eichel no matter what the deal is. He will find a way to justify his stupidity.

[ForeverFlameFan]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

Here is my attempt at a crazy 4 team blockbuster

Calgary trades: Tkachuk, Zary 12th overall
St Louis trades: Tarasenko, Thomas, 16th overall, 2nd 22
NYI trade: Ladd, Komerov, Wahlstrom
Buffalo trades: Eichel

Calgary receives: Eichel
St. Louis receives: Tkachuk
NYI receives: Tarasenko, 2nd 22
Buffalo receives: Zary, 12th overall, 16th overall, Thomas, Wahlstrom, Komerov, Ladd

Calgary gets the center they need

St. Louis moves Tarasenko and gets Tkachuk

Islanders add a potential impact forward and while it costs a promising prospect they get to dump a bunch of cap in the process and get a needed pick.

Buffalo gets a haul they do take cap dumps but get 2 guys drafted in the first round in 2018, a first rounder from 2020, and 2 picks in the top half of this upcoming draft which they could potentially pair to trade up as rumored they want a second top 10 pick

This is what I came up with:

Three way trade with CGY/BUF/STL

Flames acquire:
(C) Eichel
(RW) Tarasenko (10% retained)

Blues acquire:
(LW/RW) Tkachuk
(LW/RW) Olofsson

Sabres acquire:
(C) Monahan
(C/RW) Kyrou (or Thomas, I personally value Thomas higher and one to be kept by STL)
(LD) Dunn
2021 1st (CGY) —> 12th OA
2022 1st (STL) —> unprotected
*2022/2023 1st (CGY) —> can defer pick to 2023 if CGY misses playoffs and/or wins top 2 pick in the draft and chooses to pick in 2022.

Breakdown:
BUF/CGY - Monahan, M. Tkachuk, 12th OA, 2022 cond. 1st for Eichel and Olofsson

STL/CGY - Tarasenko for Olofsson
- Proven commodity, Tarasenko would waive here rather than Buffalo), and retention to our standard 6.75m. 2 years left. St. Louis gets younger with a guy that can still score points, albeit the majority of them PP points.

BUF/STL - M. Tkachuk for Kyrou, Dunn, 2022 1st STL (unprotected)
- Buffalo gets a top 4 D, a top 6 C/RW, and an unprotected 1st for a hometown star winger.

Calgary - Overpays a bit for Eichel, but I tried finding a way to trade quality without giving up Pelletier or Zary. Also have to overpay to ensure we grab him. Could only come up with trading our 2022 or 2023 pick. Zary and Pelletier imo need to be kept, their stock has risen.

St. Louis - Rolls with ROR and Thomas/Schenn as their top two centers, and acquire hometown player Tkachuk and a great middle 6 option in Olofsson who is cost controlled after his last season on 3m.

Buffalo - As a team in rebuild 3.0 or 4.0, grabbing a good player in Monahan as a stopgap while Cozens/Mittelstadt work themselves in as centers would be ideal. That’s also not even counting Dunn who would play LD behind Dahlin and Kyrou who would be a good playmaker to Cozens or Monahan. All this while including 3 1st round picks to either use to pick or trade later.

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Monahan played most of the season with a bad hip, every year he is good for 30 goals. He is not fetching Eichel straight up but this narrative he has the value of a 2nd rnd pick is laughable.

Especially when we just saw Bennett go for 2x2nds.

[flambers]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Monahan played most of the season with a bad hip, every year he is good for 30 goals. He is not fetching Eichel straight up but this narrative he has the value of a 2nd rnd pick is laughable.

Sure,

Remember Monahan has had a history of injuries....

(Surgery - 2016-17, 2017-18, 2020-21)

2016-17 "it emerged that Monahan needed wrist surgery. This was described as a minor surgery, ."

2017-18 " that he underwent four surgeries: two hernia surgeries, a groin surgery, and another wrist surgery."

2018-19 " After the season, it emerged that Monahan was again playing injured, this time dealing with a cracked thumb. While the extent of the injury was not clear, ."

2019-20 - healthy

2020-21 - "where it was reported that Monahan will require hip surgery and will miss the remainder of the year."

https://thewincolumn.ca/2021/05/13/b...ough-injuries/


Below is a link, obviously its a pure guess.... who knows what the Flames would ask for

https://cardiaccane.com/2021/07/03/c...an-make-sense/

"What would it cost to get someone like Sean Monahan to Raleigh-Durham into the red and white of the Carolina Hurricanes? Well, it would cost a decent amount, but it shouldn’t break the bank like some other guys on the trade block this summer. It could look something like the Viktor Arvidsson trade, where it is just two picks in the first 3 rounds of the draft, or it could be something like a B to C-tier prospect and a 3rd round pick"

[Heavy Jack]

Without getting too bogged down in the specifics if we can get Eichel with a Tkachuk package how mind blowing would it be to have a Gaudreau/Eichel tandem locked up for years. The media exploitation it would cause would be glorious because of the Eichel/McDavid factor.

Still seems like a long shot we land Eichel and at the end of the day either way I really am hoping we can sign Johnny to a solid long term extension but man I really am starting to hope a franchise altering trade for a player like Eichel happens this year.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Anyone comparing Viktor Arvidsson to Sean Monahan needs a reality check. They are not remotely close players in value or production.

[Heavy Jack]

I really don’t understand the Monahan hate here, the guy has done everything that’s been asked of him and more and has battled through injuries his entire career. It’s not his fault he’s been played in a role that’s more than what he is and he’s still been able to produce some pretty productive and consistent seasons in that time frame. It takes two hands to clap so the ‘he played with Johnny so that’s why’ argument gets old especially considering the fact that he’s a center who had put up 5 straight seasons of 50-52 % in the circle.

He’s certainly worth more than a couple 2nd rounders at this point the guy isn’t an Arvidsson or Bennett, he’s a top 6 Center who plays through injuries and with a teams top wingers at a great cap hit. Can we give the guy just a little more respect?

[Macho0978]

Originally Posted by flamesgod

I prefer 7x7, I think Johnny will age nicely.

Even if he doesn’t age well if we can get him in at $7 mil then we might be able to avoid a rebuild. Plus 250k on his current cap would allow this team to add as guys when Gio and lucic become free agents. I think this would open up a new 3 to 4 year window for this team to compete

If he’s coming in at $8+ and Tkachuk at $9 mil or worse he accepts the QO or demands a trade I just don’t see this team winning for 2 or 3 years. If this is the case rebuild is best route to go or at least a retool

But if he is ok with $7mil x 7 then it’s hard not to keep him for his entire career

[ForeverFlameFan]

Originally Posted by Heavy Jack

I really don’t understand the Monahan hate here, the guy has done everything that’s been asked of him and more and has battled through injuries his entire career. It’s not his fault he’s been played in a role that’s more than what he is and he’s still been able to produce some pretty productive and consistent seasons in that time frame. It takes two hands to clap so the ‘he played with Johnny so that’s why’ argument gets old especially considering the fact that he’s a center who had put up 5 straight seasons of 50-52 % in the circle.

He’s certainly worth more than a couple 2nd rounders at this point the guy isn’t an Arvidsson or Bennett, he’s a top 6 Center who plays through injuries and with a teams top wingers at a heat cap hit. Can we give the guy just a little more respect?

I don’t mind Monahan. I won’t trade him for scraps, but if I’ve got to include him in a deal for Eichel I do it all day.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Heavy Jack

Without getting too bogged down in the specifics if we can get Eichel with a Tkachuk package how mind blowing would it be to have a Gaudreau/Eichel tandem locked up for years. The media exploitation it would cause would be glorious because of the Eichel/McDavid factor.

That's a battle the Flames lose every time, and it would be far from glorious. McDavid/Draisatil >>> Eichel/Gaudreau. Only a massive homer would think the latter can compete with the former. There is no such thing as the Eichel/McDavid factor. Eichel is 220 points behind McDavid, has never won an NHL award, and has never had a sniff of the post-season. I wish people would stop trying to build some rivalry between these two since they are not competitive in any way. Eichel is competitive with Sebatian Aho, not Connor McDavid.

Still seems like a long shot we land Eichel and at the end of the day either way I really am hoping we can sign Johnny to a solid long term extension but man I really am starting to hope a franchise altering trade for a player like Eichel happens this year.

Can't see it happening. The Flames just don't have the pieces to compete to make a deal and then have the pieces to have a competitive team on the ice in the next five years. A retool to be a second tier team is possible, but making a big splash for Eichel is nothing by guaranteeing that the Flames become Buffalo west.

[ForeverFlameFan]

^ Lol your garbage Eichel takes are getting tiresome

[flambers]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

Anyone comparing Viktor Arvidsson to Sean Monahan needs a reality check. They are not remotely close players in value or production.

When you look at the last 5 season in terms of goals.

Monahan has 124 goals vs Arvidsson with 119 . They are close in terms of goal production.

[Heavy Jack]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

That's a battle the Flames lose every time, and it would be far from glorious. McDavid/Draisatil >>> Eichel/Gaudreau. Only a massive homer would think the latter can compete with the former. There is no such thing as the Eichel/McDavid factor. Eichel is 220 points behind McDavid, has never won an NHL award, and has never had a sniff of the post-season. I wish people would stop trying to build some rivalry between these two since they are not competitive in any way. Eichel is competitive with Sebatian Aho, not Connor McDavid.



Can't see it happening. The Flames just don't have the pieces to compete to make a deal and then have the pieces to have a competitive team on the ice in the next five years. A retool to be a second tier team is possible, but making a big splash for Eichel is nothing by guaranteeing that the Flames become Buffalo west.

Not talking from a points stand point my friend, not at all. I’m talking from a MEDIA stand point. No matter which way you slice it a Johnny/Eichel combination would demand some air time and with the fact that Eichel has always and will always continue to be in the ‘shadow’ of McDavid having been drafted right after him what better story line than a battle of Alberta for the next 5 years between the two??? Bigger picture is that would sell some big tickets and would be a top story line year in and year out and selfishly it would be nice to have a chip in the game with the media for once and Eichel would give us that considering all of the above.

Bring me some excitement for once, a Canadian team hasn’t won a cup in near 30 years now so it’s time to be bold or be status quo and this off-season presents Calgary with a chance to be bold and I’m hoping they find a way to do it.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

That's a battle the Flames lose every time, and it would be far from glorious. McDavid/Draisatil >>> Eichel/Gaudreau. Only a massive homer would think the latter can compete with the former. There is no such thing as the Eichel/McDavid factor. Eichel is 220 points behind McDavid, has never won an NHL award, and has never had a sniff of the post-season. I wish people would stop trying to build some rivalry between these two since they are not competitive in any way. Eichel is competitive with Sebatian Aho, not Connor McDavid.



Can't see it happening. The Flames just don't have the pieces to compete to make a deal and then have the pieces to have a competitive team on the ice in the next five years. A retool to be a second tier team is possible, but making a big splash for Eichel is nothing by guaranteeing that the Flames become Buffalo west.

Flames are already competing with the Oilers without Eichel

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by Heavy Jack

I really don’t understand the Monahan hate here, the guy has done everything that’s been asked of him and more and has battled through injuries his entire career. It’s not his fault he’s been played in a role that’s more than what he is and he’s still been able to produce some pretty productive and consistent seasons in that time frame. It takes two hands to clap so the ‘he played with Johnny so that’s why’ argument gets old especially considering the fact that he’s a center who had put up 5 straight seasons of 50-52 % in the circle.

He’s certainly worth more than a couple 2nd rounders at this point the guy isn’t an Arvidsson or Bennett, he’s a top 6 Center who plays through injuries and with a teams top wingers at a great cap hit. Can we give the guy just a little more respect?

Since the summer of 2016 when Gio, Gaudreau and Monahan got declared the CORE of the franchise by their contracts

The Flames are tied for 22/23 in playoff wins with 6* * 3 wins in the play in to the final 16 Only 3 playoff wins with this core

The Flames are tied for 21/22 in playoff games played with 19* * 4 games in the play in to the final 16 Only 15 playoff games over 5 years with this CORE 3-12 in the playoffs.

The Flames are 15th overall in Regular season win %.


This is a team that spent within a few bucks of the cap every year.. This is not a team that had a rebuild over the the 5 years of these contracts. Why in the world would anyone think that paying them more for their post-prime years will make them and the team better?

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

Anyone comparing Viktor Arvidsson to Sean Monahan needs a reality check. They are not remotely close players in value or production.

Nor do they play the same position. Or face the same expansion draft considerations.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Heavy Jack

I really don’t understand the Monahan hate here, the guy has done everything that’s been asked of him and more and has battled through injuries his entire career. It’s not his fault he’s been played in a role that’s more than what he is and he’s still been able to produce some pretty productive and consistent seasons in that time frame. It takes two hands to clap so the ‘he played with Johnny so that’s why’ argument gets old especially considering the fact that he’s a center who had put up 5 straight seasons of 50-52 % in the circle.

He’s certainly worth more than a couple 2nd rounders at this point the guy isn’t an Arvidsson or Bennett, he’s a top 6 Center who plays through injuries and with a teams top wingers at a great cap hit. Can we give the guy just a little more respect?

No one should hate Monahan. IMO the guy is a warrior who absorbs punishment and plays through injuries, although they certainly seem to affect his play.

What exactly is his trade value though as measured in draft picks, which are kind of an objective measuring stick (don’t have to value the player coming back).

If 2 seconds is crazy low, what are you suggesting? IMO he’s not getting you 2 firsts. Is a first and a third fair? That’s a little better than 2 seconds, depending where the picks fall.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by flambers

When you look at the last 5 season in terms of goals.

Monahan has 124 goals vs Arvidsson with 119 . They are close in terms of goal production.

I’m not sure that Monny’s goal scoring in the past is particularly relevant unless he proves himself healthy and productive.

You move him from Johnny line and he’s not likely to score 20 even if healthy.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Wood]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

I’m not sure that Monny’s goal scoring in the past is particularly relevant unless he proves himself healthy and productive.

You move him from Johnny line and he’s not likely to score 20 even if healthy.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

He scored 22 as an 18 year old before Gaudreau ever made the Flames

If healthy, Monahan is good for at least 20 on any line