26 y.o. New Brunswick woman shot and killed by Police

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by Flames_Gimp

You're saying most cops ignore their training?

Oh yes, not terribly but you spend the day being sworn at and spat at in situations where you can't do much of anything and then end up dealing with someone who is also swearing at them but because they have a weapon the cops can actually go in hard and lay a bit of a beating in the process they go in hard almost every time, they view it as a bit of payback really.

That varies from PD to PD, New Westminster were brutal always, RCMP varied by detachment, Vancouver PD used to be bad but have improved in the last decade, Port Moody were always a joy to deal with.

[dino7c]

London police just shot a guy with a knife a couple months back

[Flames_Gimp]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

Oh yes, not terribly but you spend the day being sworn at and spat at in situations where you can't do much of anything and then end up dealing with someone who is also swearing at them but because they have a weapon the cops can actually go in hard and lay a bit of a beating in the process they go in hard almost every time, they view it as a bit of payback really.

That varies from PD to PD, New Westminster were brutal always, RCMP varied by detachment, Vancouver PD used to be bad but have improved in the last decade, Port Moody were always a joy to deal with.

I understand the excitement to get "a bad guy" or to have some action, but I think it's different when weapons are involved.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by Flames_Gimp

Police are trained and they know how deadly a knife can be.

except that for policemen they're not, policemen are well trained, fit and equipped with a Kevlar vest, gun, taser, pepper spray and night stick it is almost inconceivable that a policeman can be killed by one person with a knife under these circumstances outside of being attacked by a crowd in a riot or something

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by Flames_Gimp

I understand the excitement to get "a bad guy" or to have some action, but I think it's different when weapons are involved.

my experience has been it depends on the age of the cop, older cops are better, slower to use force, younger cops are terrible, go boots in almost straight away, and will escalate situations needlessly if they feel they are being challenged.

[MarchHare]

Some of you are really missing the point. Nobody is saying that police should never have the option of using deadly force or that every time a cop kills a suspect it is inherently always unjustified. What we're saying is that police in some other countries have figured out different tactics and procedures that can be used to safely disarm and apprehend subjects such that the use of deadly force by law enforcement is employed far less often than it is in North America. We're asking that our police forces be trained in those techniques and start using them too.

[Flames_Gimp]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

except that for policemen they're not, policemen are well trained, fit and equipped with a Kevlar vest, gun, taser, pepper spray and night stick it is almost inconceivable that a policeman can be killed by one person with a knife under these circumstances outside of being attacked by a crowd in a riot or something

lol police officers aren't scared of someone with a knife and inconceivable they can be killed ? Come on man, I have to call BS, the training used to be the 21 foot rule because you can't even draw a gun as fast as someone with a knife can cover up to 21 feet and stab you

[Flames_Gimp]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

Some of you are really missing the point. Nobody is saying that police should never have the option of using deadly force or that every time a cop kills a suspect it is inherently always unjustified. What we're saying is that police in some other countries have figured out different tactics and procedures that can be used to safely disarm and apprehend subjects such that the use of deadly force by law enforcement is employed far less often than it is in North America. We're asking that our police forces be trained in those techniques and start using them too.

I would argue that deadly force is required more often in North America, USA in particular

[MarchHare]

Originally Posted by Flames_Gimp

I would argue that deadly force is required more often in North America, USA in particular

Keep thinking this through. You're so close to having an epiphany...

[FireGilbert]

What a tragedy. We’ll never know what happened but clearly something went very wrong for the police to kill someone they were supposed to be protecting.

My first thought is there needs to be improved training towards lethal force. Maybe a knife is justifiable but not in every case. My second thought is that situations like these are why there is a low level of trust towards police. Maybe the officer is telling the truth but with no body cams and an attitude of police unions sticking with their own we will never know. There needs to be some accountability to grow trust. .

Finally I was reminded of the time my house was broken into when I was 13 and I arrived home from school through the back door just as the police arrived through the front. I found myself face to face with a big cop pointing a gun at me yelling “who are you!” Through almost ####ting my pants I managed to meekly let out a “I live here”. It was probably the scariest moment of my life and I’m glad the officer, despite having his gun ready, took the time to visually and verbally confirm I wasn’t a threat. I’ve always wondered though if this would have played out differently if I looked scarier than a bean pole white kid, it happened at night, or if I was holding something like a water gun or baseball bat.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by Flames_Gimp

lol police officers aren't scared of someone with a knife and inconceivable they can be killed ? Come on man, I have to call BS, the training used to be the 21 foot rule because you can't even draw a gun as fast as someone with a knife can cover up to 21 feet and stab you

I agree but that's the point, the cops never let the guy with the knife closer than 21 ft, no one is jumping out and ambushing a cop with a knife, when the police deal with a knife it is some raving screaming mentally ill drunk in his house or on the street, they are always more of a threat to themselves than anyone else and the cops arrive to deal with it from more than 21 ft.

This girl with a kid and a job and no history of crime or violence, she doesn't suddenly become a zombie cop killer, there is no reason at all to believe if he had done something different, identified himself better, backed away from her, perhaps just not thought it was ok to shoot someone because they are holding a knife and didn't drop it quick enough (my personal guess) this wholly normal citizen would be alive today.

[dino7c]

London police shot and killed a man with a knife in March and there was another this past February...so I don't know about all this UK talk

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by dino7c

London police shot and killed a man with a knife in March and there was another this past February...so I don't know about all this UK talk

The one in March was shot after the police shot at him with a taser three times and he crossed a bridge. Was it justified, I don't know but clearly they tried other ways to stop the guy before shooting him.

The one in February was a terrorist attack where the guy was stabbing people. So safe to assume that was justified.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by dino7c

London police shot and killed a man with a knife in March and there was another this past February...so I don't know about all this UK talk

The UK has a population of 66 million.

The police there have killed 7 people over the past 3 years. The one in March? They tasered him three separate times before resorting to deadly force. In February? He had stabbed multiple people and was wearing a (hoax) suicide vest.

Canada has a population of 33 million people. There have been 4x the amount of people killed by police (29) in the last three years, with half the population. It’s a pretty stark contrast.

The US? Yeah, 330 million people, so 5x the size of the U.K., and 630 people killed by police, so about 90x more than the U.K. Absolute insanity and another conversation completely.

[PeteMoss]

Uk police have killed 5 times since 2019. Police in Winnipeg killed 3 indigenous people in 10 days in March.

[MarchHare]

Are Canadians 5.7 times more violent than Australians? Or 19.4 times more violent than Brits? No? Then why are our police officers killing suspects at such a higher rate?



Data source: https://worldpopulationreview.com/co...gs-by-country/

[OMG!WTF!]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

I agree but that's the point, the cops never let the guy with the knife closer than 21 ft, no one is jumping out and ambushing a cop with a knife, when the police deal with a knife it is some raving screaming mentally ill drunk in his house or on the street, they are always more of a threat to themselves than anyone else and the cops arrive to deal with it from more than 21 ft.

I really think you should watch some other videos of cops dealing with knife attackers. Here are the first few that come up in a google search...


Shot the dude 7 times and he still slit the officer's throat....

NSFW!

Shot this dude 11 times and still got chopped in the arm...

NSFW!

I don't know. Maybe Brits are different. Our crazies don't really seem to be more of a threat to themselves...

NSFW!

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

The UK has a population of 66 million.

The police there have killed 7 people over the past 3 years. The one in March? They tasered him three separate times before resorting to deadly force. In February? He had stabbed multiple people and was wearing a (hoax) suicide vest.

Canada has a population of 33 million people. There have been 4x the amount of people killed by police (29) in the last three years, with half the population. It’s a pretty stark contrast.

The US? Yeah, 330 million people, so 5x the size of the U.K., and 630 people killed by police, so about 90x more than the U.K. Absolute insanity and another conversation completely.

Are we talking total killed by police or just people with knives?

There are more guns here and way more in the US (that is a debate for another day) When the criminals have guns it is more likely lethal force is needed. It really depends on the area too, London has a population of 8 million at 3 people with knives have been shot by police in the last year.

Not trying to suggest Canada is better or anything just this idea that in the UK they don't use force and everything is great seems to be a little misleading to me. Police in the UK aren't dealing with the same thing. We have 7x the guns per-capita

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

Are Canadians 5.7 times more violent than Australians? Or 19.4 times more violent than Brits? No? Then why are our police officers killing suspects at such a higher rate?



Data source: https://worldpopulationreview.com/co...gs-by-country/

I would have to think guns are a major factor

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by OMG!WTF!

I really think you should watch some other videos of cops dealing with knife attackers. Here are the first few that come up in a google search...


Shot the dude 7 times and he still slit the officer's throat....

NSFW!

Shot this dude 11 times and still got chopped in the arm...

NSFW!

I don't know. Maybe Brits are different. Our crazies don't really seem to be more of a threat to themselves...

NSFW!

Have I ever said there are no circumstances ever that a policeman should use their gun? no, I'm just saying that like the first video you show, the one where the guy is shouting clearly 'kill me' as he does his level best to get the cops to kill him as he is going through some kind of crisis and best guess isn't actually prepared to hurt anyone but himself, that is the vast majority of situations cops deal with, I doubt that out of every knife wielding 'perp' the cops deal with maybe one out of a hundred actually wants to kill anyone but themselves, which is why no cops get killed with knives, the people they are dealing with overwhelmingly aren't actually trying to kill them.

Oh and the first guy that 'cut the officers throat' well the officer suffered 'minor injuries' the guy could have killed him, could have stabbed him, cut his throat but what he did was scratch him, like I said most knife wielding suspects are looking to hurt themselves.