[Trade] Leafs acquire Muzzin from Kings for Grundstrom, Durzi and Toronto's 1st

[tkflames]

While times differently, I think the Hamonic comparison is valid here.

Off-ice:
Age: Hamonic
Leadership: Hamonic
Cap Hit: Hamonic
Length of Contract: Hamonic

On-ice:
I would love peoples view on this. My initial take is that offensively I would prefer Muzzin, but defensively I would prefer Hamonic.

Cost: 1st and 2 x 2nds seems a bit rich (as it did for Hamonic) but the leafs window is likely to close a lot faster than anyone is willing to admit. The team will be worse next year as they will already need to shed salary. Gutting 3 pieces from your system is not concussive to extending a window.

[Erick Estrada]

I don't know about Muzzin being #5 on the Flames. He's a more complete defenseman than Hanafin and on the level with Hamonc.

[PsYcNeT]

I mean, Muzzin played top pair with Doughty in LA for most of his time there; I'm pretty sure he'll be fine.

The big question is how he gels with Reilley

[Phagoof]

This makes the Hamonic trade look great.

Also this makes trading Brodie in the off season a real consideration with what he would bring back.

[iloveicedhockey]

Leafs and flames can both feel great relative to the Griffin Reinhart deal.

Hamonic trade certainly set the market for this trade and I feel value in both trades is somewhere around fair. Remember, our first wasn't protected and was traded with way less certainty of positional finish.

[Cheese]

Hope Muzzin takes as long as Hammer did to settle in.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by djsFlames

I don't believe in the whole LS/RS thing after sticking to that contributed to two mediocre seasons for us but I will say that Muzzin automatically slotting in as a top pairing guy over there speaks volumes about the quality of the ML's blue line.

For contrast if we acquired Muzzin for prospects he'd probably be the #5. Talk about throwing a new acquisition head first into the fire. There's no way he lives up to it, at least not right away.

LS/RS generally works, which is why coaches do it, unless they can't because of personnel. Brodie preferring his weak hand side is an anomoly.

I do wonder if Muzzin can adapt to the right side, which is his off-side after pretty much playing left his whole career (with a RHS on the other side), especially when being challenged to do it on a top pairing with a guy who isn't very defensive minded.

[Roof-Daddy]

Very comparable in value to TJ Brodie or Travis Hamonic if Treliving looks to deal either guy in the summer. Especially if either guy is willing to sign an extension with the team acquiring them.

[CroFlames]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

Very comparable in value to TJ Brodie or Travis Hamonic if Treliving looks to deal either guy in the summer. Especially if either guy is willing to sign an extension with the team acquiring them.

Why though? Our window is now and these are guys we can win with.

[Mattman]

Originally Posted by CroFlames

Why though? Our window is now and these are guys we can win with.

Because we can't keep both after their contracts are up. It will be very tough.

More importantly with the Seattle Expansion coming in less than 2 years, it would be very wise in terms of asset management to sell high after this season.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by CroFlames

Why though? Our window is now and these are guys we can win with.

Because:

1. We can't afford to extend both after next season
2. We can trade either for a solid return that will be expansion draft exempt
3. We have 3 really good young Dmen pushing up from the bottom

[Strange Brew]

It's natural to compare to the Hamonic trade.

Muzzin has a little more offense to his game, and has been through a long playoff grind and was a great contributor to their 2nd Cup.

Muzzin 2 years older now than when Hamonic was acquired.

Flames got 3 years of Hamonic, vs. 1.5 of Muzzin for Leafs. Unfortunately year 1 was wasted, so likely each team gets 2 playoff runs with their new player (on original contract).

One advantage of a deadline deal is you have a better idea of the value of the draft picks you're giving up. Leafs giving up a late first round pick vs. Flames ended up giving up #15.

A positive for making the deal in the off season is that Hamonic is fully adjusted and fit into the lineup by playoff time. You never know with Muzzin who has played with one NHL team his whole career.

To me this trade, doesn't make Hamonic look like a bargain or an overpayment. I always thought the price was a little rich but there's an argument that if last year hadn't been such an abomination, it would have actually been a very good deal by comparison.

[Flash Walken]

The way I view the hamonic deal is different now after the situation with Hamilton has revealed itself a bit.

Trade for Hamilton. It isn't working out. Trade for hamonic who makes Hamilton expendable, sell high on Hamilton.

I don't think you get Lindholm and hanifin for what the flames gave up for Hamilton.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

The way I view the hamonic deal is different now after the situation with Hamilton has revealed itself a bit.

Trade for Hamilton. It isn't working out. Trade for hamonic who makes Hamilton expendable, sell high on Hamilton.

I don't think you get Lindholm and hanifin for what the flames gave up for Hamilton.

I'm not sure Hamonic made Hamilton expendable necessarily, as Hanifin came back in that trade. But I guess the question is what the alternatives to Hamonic were. Could you have signed a depth D a la Engelland for a year or 2 at low money. That was my hope at the time.

All these names are way too similar BTW.

[Geeoff]

I think the Flames were ready to move on from Hamilton, regardless of Hamonic being on the team.

[Nelson]

I think the Leafs did better to get Muzzin for a late 1st and two 2nd round prospects than the Flames did to get Hamonic for an early 1st and two 2nd rounders.

This is because:
(1) I think Hamonic and Muzzin have had comparable seasons so far, but I think Muzzin has had a much better career, and I think Muzzin is a better defenceman than Hamonic; and
(2) I think the chances of the Kings getting a better prospect than Noah Dobson are low, and I think the Islanders generally got a better return from the Flames than the Kings got from the Leafs.

But I definitely understand the people who argue the Flames' trade was better because of Hamonic's contract. Hamonic's contract, at least this year, does provide tremendous value.

Ultimately, I don't think its really helpful to compare the deals too much. From the Flames perspective, I think you could argue the Flames would rather have Dobson and two other high picks for the future, but the Flames wouldn't be as good without Hamonic this year.

[Phagoof]

Hamonic is a rare breed of D-Man in the NHL these days. I think you lock him up for 6 years at a 3.5-4m(ish) caphit. Brodie, not so much, don't get me wrong he's a nice piece. (when playing on the right, I think he'd be fine without Gio, albeit not elite.) But I think he's a lot easier to replace.

[keenan87]

Originally Posted by Nelson

I think the Leafs did better to get Muzzin for a late 1st and two 2nd round prospects than the Flames did to get Hamonic for an early 1st and two 2nd rounders.

This is because:
(1) I think Hamonic and Muzzin have had comparable seasons so far, but I think Muzzin has had a much better career, and I think Muzzin is a better defenceman than Hamonic; and
(2) I think the chances of the Kings getting a better prospect than Noah Dobson are low, and I think the Islanders generally got a better return from the Flames than the Kings got from the Leafs.

But I definitely understand the people who argue the Flames' trade was better because of Hamonic's contract. Hamonic's contract, at least this year, does provide tremendous value.

Ultimately, I don't think its really helpful to compare the deals too much. From the Flames perspective, I think you could argue the Flames would rather have Dobson and two other high picks for the future, but the Flames wouldn't be as good without Hamonic this year.

Hamonic was also 3 years younger when he was traded. Muzzin is about to be on the wrong side of 30.

[The Yen Man]

Originally Posted by Mattman

Because we can't keep both after their contracts are up. It will be very tough.

More importantly with the Seattle Expansion coming in less than 2 years, it would be very wise in terms of asset management to sell high after this season.

Not that I'm advocating not trading Brodie, because from an asset management standpoint, it makes sense to see if you can trade him. But I do understand the not trading him side as well. Having Brodie on the team gives the team a better chance to win right now. So even if you keep him as an expiring contract, the opportunity cost is comparable to spending a 1st at the deadline for a rental to make the team better.

[djsFlames]

Hamonic is a unique "type" of defenseman and he has a lot of value. Look no further for proof than the Flames current season and the role he's played in it.

Muzzin has had a great career. But keyword is had, and I don't think he's quite at that level today.