CalgaryNEXT project on pause, says Ken King

[Senator Clay Davis]

Originally Posted by IamNotKenKing

Sorry, but that's not how it works. If the ticket tax is tacked on, it is still money out of their pockets. You can charge whatever the market will bear, and where you spend the money is your business. In this case, they are proposing to spend $450 million on the arena.

The argument can be made the initial $200 million isn't theirs because it comes from ticket prices, beer prices, merchandise, parking, etc. That makes it theirs, to spend as they see fit. In this case, they want to spend it on a new arena. Yes, the new arena will likely bring in new and higher revenues for them, but it is still their money that they are spending. They cannot just tack on an infinite amount to the ticket price, as the market will dictate what that amount is. They can, and do, set ticket prices already based upon what the market will pay, and will continue to do this with the new arena.

The only way it's money out of their pockets is if no one shows up to the new arena because prices are too high. Edmonton is currently batting 1.000 at sellouts since opening, even with the 20% across the board increases (nevermind the increases to concessions which were ludicrous) and one of the worst teams in the league (heading into the building). Whether you like it or not, people here are going to eat the increase and sell out the new building with only the poorest fans complaining. I mean you have people essentially begging for their taxes to increase so the city funds this. I betcha they could go huge and jack up prices 30% and people will eat it. It's hockey, it's Canada. Just like people will pay well above face value for the NFL down south, we do the same for hockey.

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Well yeah I want it built. Cities across North America are getting new professional sport facilities all the time so at the end of the day your logic and facts amount to little more than opposition bickering. You know, we know at the end of the day the facilities will get built. All this is right now is internet bickering about something we all have no control of.

Every here knows the arena is happening, north of the Stampede grounds, with $200 million cash and the ticket tax. It'll be sweet when it's done. That you're still of the opinion CalgaryNEXT will happen is delusional given the available evidence. Dare to dream though. Of course I always thought you were someone who hates tax and spend, and yet here you're begging for it. Sports is so weird at frying people's brains away from their core beliefs.

[taxbuster]

Originally Posted by Cleveland Steam Whistle

The one thing I will say, with no idea what's going on with these proceedings, is our city, especially under this mayor is netoriously difficult to deal with. Probably going to be a lot of starting and stopping on this project, and given the Flames are the only ones with any motivation to communicate on this project (and rightfully so, they want the rink the most) it will be them delivering the messages.

I guess you could say it's their own fault for how early they communicated, but I'm not going to critique them looping in their fans on their high level plans. I also don't envy them having to work past this cities very archauque way of doing business on a project this large.

After Dave Bronconnier more or less singlehandedly ruled development for 20 or so years - to the significant detriment of anyone but developers in Calgary - I would hope that the City demanded a proper proposal. Unfortunately, that's not what the Flames ownership (or KK) gave them. He provided a half-baked idea about how the public could provide most of the funding for the arena and the ownership could take both the credit and the resultant profits. Great if you're an owner - not so good if you're a city taxpayer.

Perhaps the City would be more amenable if the ownership turned the Flames over as a community-owned entity (like the Green Bay Packers). THEN both ownership and taxpayers have a stake.

This whole enterprise has been brutally mismanaged and horridly communicated from Day 1 - and anyone blaming either the City or Nenshi for it is looking in the wrong direction IMNSHO.

Time to dump KK and start over if the owners want to get anywhere.

[IamNotKenKing]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

The only way it's money out of their pockets is if no one shows up to the new arena because prices are too high. Edmonton is currently batting 1.000 at sellouts since opening, even with the 20% across the board increases (nevermind the increases to concessions which were ludicrous) and one of the worst teams in the league (heading into the building). Whether you like it or not, people here are going to eat the increase and sell out the new building with only the poorest fans complaining. I mean you have people essentially begging for their taxes to increase so the city funds this. I betcha they could go huge and jack up prices 30% and people will eat it. It's hockey, it's Canada. Just like people will pay well above face value for the NFL down south, we do the same for hockey.



Every here knows the arena is happening, north of the Stampede grounds, with $200 million cash and the ticket tax. It'll be sweet when it's done. That you're still of the opinion CalgaryNEXT will happen is delusional given the available evidence. Dare to dream though. Of course I always thought you were someone who hates tax and spend, and yet here you're begging for it. Sports is so weird at frying people's brains away from their core beliefs.

Sorry Senator. It is money out of their pockets. If people pay it, and a portion goes to building the arena instead of to profit, it is out of their pockets.

And yes, Calgary4Life, I am being simplistic here and ignoring the financing aspect of it, which is a cost for sure, and one of the ways in which the City's number and the Flames' number differs. I am just focusing on the actual $450 million for this discussion.

[curves2000]

So does this mean that Calgary won't ever become a "world class city"??????? Ahh shucks, too bad.

All joking aside, this project hasn't been well managed by the Flames from the onset and will literally take a lot longer to get off the ground than people think. If they run on an expediated schedule I could see the Flames breaking ground on SOMETHING by spring of 2018.

See what happens I guess.

[Cappy]

Originally Posted by Yoho

If a significant percentage gets federal funding who cares? The heroine beers will taste that much sweeter knowing tax payers from Quebec, Ontario, and BC chipped in.

Will you sing the same tune when Toronto gets a bunch of crap for their summer bid and we have to pay for it???

Sure the precedent has been set but it's a terrible precedent.

[Clarkey]

Bunch or arm chair QB's here...

[ricosuave]

N. Murray Edwards net worth - 1.79 Billion
Clay Riddell - 1.32 Billion
Allan Markin - 0.67 Billion
Can't seem to find info on McCaig and Libin, but I'm betting 1.0 Billion combined...

[Aarongavey]

Why don't they go to all the Flames fans and ask for some money instead of going to the taxpayer. If there are 500,000 Flames fans, that would be about 1000 dollars a fan. I am sure that all the pro arena folks on CP would be more than willing to give 1000 dollars to the Flames arena fund.

[flamesfan6]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

Why don't they go to all the Flames fans and ask for some money instead of going to the taxpayer. If there are 500,000 Flames fans, that would be about 1000 dollars a fan. I am sure that all the pro arena folks on CP would be more than willing to give 1000 dollars to the Flames arena fund.

lol, would you?

honestly, i wouldn't ... I'm not a billionaire and would rather spend $1,000 on something for me than lining the pockets of millionaires/billionaires

[MoneyGuy]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

Why don't they go to all the Flames fans and ask for some money instead of going to the taxpayer. If there are 500,000 Flames fans, that would be about 1000 dollars a fan. I am sure that all the pro arena folks on CP would be more than willing to give 1000 dollars to the Flames arena fund.

Bet you you're wrong.

[Yoho]

Using CalgaryNEXT as part of Olympic bid detrimental to city's chances: Nenshi

https://www.metronews.ca/news/calgar...form=hootsuite

[Passe La Puck]

Originally Posted by Cleveland Steam Whistle

this mayor is netoriously difficult to deal with.

Good! Our mayor should be notoriously difficult to deal with handing out money to billionaires.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by flamesfan6

lol, would you?

honestly, i wouldn't ... I'm not a billionaire and would rather spend $1,000 on something for me than lining the pockets of millionaires/billionaires

Then why do you follow sports at all? Because you following sports, supporting the team, supporting advertisers, and supporting the broadcasters, is lining the pockets of millionaires/billionaires. Of the stupid arguments presented, this was the ultimate stupid argument of arguments.

[Senator Clay Davis]

I guess Plan B is ready to go right now (which of course suggests it was always Plan A)

Pat Steinberg ‏@Fan960Steinberg 15h15 hours ago
King says CSEC focused on plan B which would be standalone event centre in Victoria Park. Also admits that would orphan McMahon Stadium

https://twitter.com/Fan960Steinberg/...55693156569089

Pat Steinberg @Fan960Steinberg 15h15 hours ago
King says timeline for standalone arena, if approved, far quicker than #CalgaryNEXT. Says Victoria Park project could be “shovel ready” now.

https://twitter.com/Fan960Steinberg/...55722780856320

[Ducay]

Oh surprise surprise, KK makes his slight of hand to Plan B so quickly and easily, almost like they had it planned all along. Pushing the narrative that CalgaryNEXT was "the only option" was just part of the sales tactic to make a less ambitious and more practical Victoria Park arena seem "cheap and affordable" to taxpayers at large. Helps them avoid negative scrutiny for any taxpayer dollars since they're so nice as to not ask for 1.4billion this time. How kind.

[Strange Brew]

"Orphan McMahon stadium"?

Who are its parents today?

[Heavy Jack]

Spoiler!

[getbak]

Back in 2011, at a STH event I attended, King said that they had chosen a site that was "a couple blocks north of here" (here being the Saddledome) and an announcement would be made shortly.

At previous events, he had always spoken in vague terms about where they were looking (usually saying that they were considering up to 4 different locations near downtown), but at that 2011 event, he was pretty definitive that there was only one location. Then, at the next event I attended, he was back to speaking in vague terms, but was now talking about a much larger project.


My assumption is that once the Flames owners began discussing purchasing the Stamps, the scope of the project changed (or possibly, they started discussing incorporating a football stadium into the arena plan and that led to the discussions about buying the Stamps) and the original arena-only plans got put in King's desk drawer.

Now, they can pull those plans out and dust them off.

[Kavvy]

I can't believe anyone doesn't consider the ticket tax as a owner contribution.

City providing financing definitely takes away from that, but it is just pure bias arguments to say that the ticket tax minus any financing costs provided by the city isn't 100% an owner contribution.

[Poster]

Originally Posted by Kavvy

I can't believe anyone doesn't consider the ticket tax as a owner contribution.

City providing financing definitely takes away from that, but it is just pure bias arguments to say that the ticket tax minus any financing costs provided by the city isn't 100% an owner contribution.

Idea

How about financing he entire project with a "ticket tax"?

Hmmmm, sounds like reinvesting their profits for something that benefits their bottom line. Kinda like how every other business finances expansion!

I see no reason for funding to come from anyone but the owners of a business and their customers. This is not a public need and therefore shouldn't have anything to do with with taxpayers money.

Keb King is a snake oil salesman and I don't want a single penny of my taxes going to this.

BARF when he trotted out the line that this was a city owned building and belonged to the tax payers. Well ya, so they could walk away from it in 25 years and extort us for another new facility all while not having to pay any property tax!

Sorry bud, build your own white elephant if it's such a a good idea.