Notes from Oct 19 Practice: Colborne returns. Ramo next starter. Ferland missing.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by nik-

The team was hardly guided to the playoffs by goaltending last year. Our goaltending was pretty much exactly average from both goalies.

But average is what got us in. I never said they were the sole reason we got in, but they did guide us there.

Our .911 team save percentage put us on par with L.A. for the best save percentage in our division. It wasn't elite or world beating but it was a big reason we got to the playoffs. Really poor goaltending in our division was a big reason our division was so poor last year, and a potential reason for why the Flames had such a strong in-division record.

Our .881 Save Percentage this year is also a big reason we are 1-4-0 so far. Get the "average" goaltending we got last season and that is already 4.8 fewer goals on the year.

[SuperMatt18]

I think the other thing impacting the goalie situation is they are unsure of how ready Gillies is in Stockton.

Treliving mentioned earlier this year that you need 3 goalies that are NHL ready in case of injury. Gillies has only played 2 pro-games so far (a shutout, and an underwhelming performance) and it is too early to tell what we have in him at the pro level.

I wonder if they are concerned that moving one of these 3 goalies leaves them in trouble in case of an injury to a goalie.

If you move a veteran, and then the other one gets hurt, are you comfortable with a Ortio-Gillies tandem at the NHL level.

[Bandwagon In Flames]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Maybe the message is that ALL the players up front and on defence have to be better, and that the problems are not resolved by a goaltending change?

Maybe the message is not to get too high or too low about individual wins and losses over the course of a long season?

Maybe neither you, me, nor anyone else outside of that locker room has a good sense about how "always earned, never given" mantra works in practice? Just because you understand the words does not necessarily mean that you can correctly interpret its implementation from the very, very limited view we have of the team.

Changing up goalies DOES send a message to the entire team that they need to be better. It's common for goalies to get pulled in games not because of their play, but to wake up the rest of the team. It's a message that something isn't working and it's time to shake things up. Keeping the lines unchanged is sending the opposite message.

This isn't a case of overreacting because we have been losing close games. The Flames are playing their worst hockey in 2+ seasons.

Hartley said it's win and you play between the 3 goalies. Well guess what? Hiller and Ramo have lost and been responsible for sloppy goals. Both goalies keep getting starts while Ortio shares practice time. I don't need to be in the locker room to observe this contradiction.

[bob-loblaw]

Originally Posted by Locke

I'm guessing that Treliving put an internal timeline in place to resolve the three-headed monster issue and that in order to achieve this goal hes got to showcase them in order to get rid of them.

I think its going to swap between Hiller and Ramo until one of them us either dealt, waived or hit by an errant City Bus or irate taxi driver.

Perhaps a rookie Uber driver could help out.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Salt Water Cowboy #10

I think Colborne is a bigger part of this team than he gets credit for sometimes.

He's probably the team's best player on the boards and on the cycle, and those are qualities the roster is desperately short of.

[Flames_F.T.W]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

Derek Wills @Fan960Wills
#Flames forwards at practice:
Gaudreau-Monahan-Frolik
Bennett-Backlund-Hudler
Granlund-Colborne-Jooris
Bollig-Stajan-Jones

I like the balance of that top 6. I've also been curious to see Granlund on the wing-- he's definitely an NHLer but we have a bit of a logjam up the middle.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Bandwagon In Flames

Changing up goalies DOES send a message to the entire team that they need to be better...Keeping the lines unchanged is sending the opposite message.

That depends entirely upon the ACTUAL MESSAGE that coaches are delivering along with their lineups from practice to practice and game to game. This is a pretty unsophisticated view of how hockey works—as if the same tactics are used with the same rationale and the same expected result each and every time.

Originally Posted by Bandwagon In Flames

This isn't a case of overreacting because we have been losing close games. The Flames are playing their worst hockey in 2+ seasons.

It is overreacting if you are not setting these games in their appropriate context. It is a long, long season. Far too long to be freaking out about a string of poor games in the first two weeks.

Originally Posted by Bandwagon In Flames

Hartley said it's win and you play between the 3 goalies.

Did he say just this? I don't remember it if he did, but I do recall him saying that his #1 and #2 were Ramo and Hiller in no particular order.

Originally Posted by Bandwagon In Flames

Well guess what? Hiller and Ramo have lost and been responsible for sloppy goals. Both goalies keep getting starts while Ortio shares practice time. I don't need to be in the locker room to observe this contradiction.

It is only a contradiction if you have made up your mind about how "in and you're in" works in this instance. YOU DON'T.

I think Kent Wilson's thoughts on the matter are most likely accurate. I also expect that SuperMatt18's assessment is also probably correct. Do you know what they have in common? They are not jumping to over-reactive conclusions based on vacuous speculations about what is taking place out of public view.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Flames_F.T.W

I like the balance of that top 6. I've also been curious to see Granlund on the wing-- he's definitely an NHLer but we have a bit of a logjam up the middle.

Interesting that they have Granlund on the wing and Colborne in the middle, IIRC they prefer Colborne on the wing.

Could be that Colborne takes the faceoffs on that line (strength for him at 52.6% but Granlund's weakness) and Granlund plays the role of center positionally during play where he is stronger.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Bandwagon In Flames

Hartley said it's win and you play between the 3 goalies. Well guess what? Hiller and Ramo have lost and been responsible for sloppy goals. Both goalies keep getting starts while Ortio shares practice time. I don't need to be in the locker room to observe this contradiction.

Source? I don't remember this. Only quote I am aware of is where he said Ortio was 3rd string.

[bob-loblaw]

Aaron Vickers ‏@AAVickers 15s15 seconds ago
Hartley on Ferland's absence today: "Resting... or maintenance. (Like) Mr Lube." #Flames

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Source? I don't remember this. Only quote I am aware of is where he said Ortio was 3rd string.

This is also what I remember. I don't believe Hartley has said anything to indicate that he intended to work with a 3-goalie rotation.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by Da_Chief

Well if Hartley keeps ignoring Ortio and keeps playing the other 2 chumps then Hartley might be the one out the door, which won't be bad news either.

So much for Always Earned Never Given crap.

Yes, lets turf the coach of the year that got a team that was supposed to be in the McJesus sweepstakes into the 2nd round of the playoffs because we are off to a slow start.

[Bandwagon In Flames]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Source? I don't remember this. Only quote I am aware of is where he said Ortio was 3rd string.

http://www.calgarysun.com/2015/10/08...e-jonas-hiller

Hartley, who has three goalies on his roster, has said he’ll go with a win-and-you-keep-playing system

As I've said previously, my opinion is that the only reason Ortio hasn't gotten a start yet is because Treliving is shopping the other two goalies and Hartley is forced to showcase them. With Ramo getting the next start, I really don't see much of an alternative. Issue is they are lowering their value further and further the more they play.

[itsmagic]

Musical chairs....
http://youtu.be/aWpaIvgciwI

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Bandwagon In Flames

http://www.calgarysun.com/2015/10/08...e-jonas-hiller

It is important to note that this is not a direct quote, and further, the article's author is both providing his own interpretation to Hartley's words and actions, but also leaves a fair bit open for his readers to interpret themselves.

We can accurately deduce that Hartley is using a win-and-you're-in rotation, and that there are three goalies on the active roster. But what is missing is any indication from Hartley that ALL THREE GOALIES factor into the rotation. On the contrary, his own direct quote about Joni Ortio firmly entrenched at no. 3 on the depth chart would suggest that he is likely NOT in the same rotation.

[Toonage]

I believe that Hartley prefers his veterans and I don't think he will play Ortio until Treliving forces him to. In other words, until we trade one of Hiller or Ramo I believe we won't see Ortio play. I think that Hartley (to this point) believes Ramo & Hiller give the team the best option to win.

[Conroy4Mayor]

Originally Posted by polak

Trade? Please?

What?! Are you serious? Ferland is fast, big and skilled, and should NOT be on the trading block. There are a few guys that should be moved, but he's not one of them.

[Bandwagon In Flames]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

It is important to note that this is not a direct quote, and further, the article's author is both providing his own interpretation to Hartley's words and actions, but also leaves a fair bit open for his readers to interpret themselves.

We can accurately deduce that Hartley is using a win-and-you're-in rotation, and that there are three goalies on the active roster. But what is missing is any indication from Hartley that ALL THREE GOALIES factor into the rotation. On the contrary, his own direct quote about Joni Ortio firmly entrenched at no. 3 on the depth chart would suggest that he is likely NOT in the same rotation.

So you are dissecting an indirect quote from Hartley to prove what you think Hartley inferred from the comment.

Apparently I'm not allowed to draw any conclusions from facts, but you are able to draw conclusions out of pure speculation.

I hope you don't talk like Sherlock Holmes in real life. It comes off as very snooty and is overkill for hockey forum chat. Just because you type like a writer from the Victorian period doesn't mean your opinions are facts.

[sureLoss]

Cassie Campbell @CassieCampbell
Watched TJ Brodie skate Saturday morning. Our HNIC group asked Hartley about him and we were told that he should return soon.

[Gaskal]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

Cassie Campbell @CassieCampbell
Watched TJ Brodie skate Saturday morning. Our HNIC group asked Hartley about him and we were told that he should return soon.