[News] Penguins call presser 9:30 AM MT. Shero fired. Bylsma TBD.

[Super Nintendo Chalmers]

Originally Posted by Tinordi

"Coach being outcoached" is one of the lamest tropes in hockey.

A) What does it even mean?
B) How could credibly you quantify it?
c) How could you credibly state it when you've never worked as a coach in a professional league?
d) It always simply correlates to team x losing and you're simply trying to make up reasons to explain that loss

It's lame when used in some broad overview. Earlier in the season, I read a breakdown of the 6-2 Canucks win over the Bruins in Dec. It showed how Torts used the last change and quick shifts to repeatedly trick Julien to anticipate a Sedin line shift and send out Chara. Chara wound up spending most of his icetime playing against the 3rd and 4th lines. This doesn't happen all the time and it certainly didn't happen enough for the Canucks.

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Yeah I don't like this as well as the new GM will be expected to make progress in the playoffs and rolling with Blysma is essentially pinning a lot of hope that the GM will be able to work magic on the roster which isn't realistic in one season whereas a new voice in the locker room can sometimes be the key much like Sutter in LA. You have to look at the two biggest issues the Penguins have had in the playoffs is the goaltender and the coach being outcoached. If I'm a new GM I go clean slate on both fronts.

It sucks for Bylsma.. not for the the new GM. He can do whatever he wants and if he wants to keep him no use firing him. Its not like the owner is forcing the GM to keep him.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Super Nintendo Chalmers

It's lame when used in some broad overview. Earlier in the season, I read a breakdown of the 6-2 Canucks win over the Bruins in Dec. It showed how Torts used the last change and quick shifts to repeatedly trick Julien to anticipate a Sedin line shift and send out Chara. Chara wound up spending most of his icetime playing against the 3rd and 4th lines. This doesn't happen all the time and it certainly didn't happen enough for the Canucks.

Yep. No coach get's outcoached every night over the course of a regular season but it happens in 7 game series and it's not just line changes it's about getting the players ready to play and understanding the importance of the next game. Blysma and MecLellan are both guilty this year of not being able to motivate their players to close out commanding series leads. While conversely AV and Sutter brilliantly managed to keep their players from packing it in and kept the belief alive they could still win.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

It sucks for Bylsma.. not for the the new GM. He can do whatever he wants and if he wants to keep him no use firing him. Its not like the owner is forcing the GM to keep him.

I don't see why it would suck. He's under contract and he still has a chance to keep his job. I highly doubt he's in his office hoping he was fired today so why would you feel bad for him? If he was hoping to be fired today then he clearly is a quitter.

[JayP]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

I'm seeing some Moon'esque posting from you as it's clear you don't like Shero and like Blysma and it's black and white. That's fine and all but Blysma hasn't done a good job coaching in the playoffs end of story. Whether it be the ridiculous run and gun series with the Flyers or terrible misuse of Iginla and line juggling last year a lot of the wounds have been self inflicted. How do you shut out a team two games in a row for a 3-1 lead in a series and not be able to get your team to even play hard for the next three games? You can't really pin this latest loss on Fleury as he wasn't that bad. Either Malkin, Crosby, Neal, Letang, etc are bad hockey players or the coach isn't getting them ready to play hard enough to battle through the playoffs.

This whole idea that the Penguins lost because they didn't try hard enough or didn't want it enough is hilarious. If Blysma has to motivate his players to play hard in the second round of the playoffs that's a knock on the players, not Blysma. Here's a good article from an ex-AHLer that sums it up perfectly:

http://blogs.thescore.com/nhl/2014/0...s-in-playoffs/

Either way, the Penguins dominated game 7 and lost because Lundqvist stole the game. It's always hilarious to me how a goalie stealing a game/series turns the other side into a bunch of losers who didn't try hard enough. It happens every year, but somehow people just can't grasp that as well you can play good hockey and still run into a hot goalie and lose.

[sureLoss]

Kypreos is speculating the Penguins may not be in a rush to hire a new coach because they believe Babcock will be available next year.

[Tinordi]

Originally Posted by Super Nintendo Chalmers

It's lame when used in some broad overview. Earlier in the season, I read a breakdown of the 6-2 Canucks win over the Bruins in Dec. It showed how Torts used the last change and quick shifts to repeatedly trick Julien to anticipate a Sedin line shift and send out Chara. Chara wound up spending most of his icetime playing against the 3rd and 4th lines. This doesn't happen all the time and it certainly didn't happen enough for the Canucks.

I'm not saying that there isn't some skill and determinism to coaching but I also don't put alot of stock in the outcoached narrative people construct to explain a team losing a 7 game series. Sure some lilne changes will have an effect in one game or another until the opposing coach adjusts. Sure a favourable game plan could work until the other coach adjusts. But really this is about the composition of a team playing well out on the ice and alot of luck going your own way. At this level, with video and resources coaches have, along with a professional squad of $60 million dollars of players how much does one coach being marginally better at the technicalities of coaching really matter in a seven game series between two teams in the second round of the playoffs?

To me it just reads as narrative shaping as fans try to construct explanations for why team X lost.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

Kypreos is speculating the Penguins may not be in a rush to hire a new coach because they believe Babcock will be available next year.

Thats interesting, why would Babcock be available next year? I think it would take a miracle to pry him out of Detroit.

[sureLoss]

Originally Posted by Locke

Thats interesting, why would Babcock be available next year? I think it would take a miracle to pry him out of Detroit.

His contract is up and some speculation he is ready to move on. Been speculated that is why the Leafs extended Carlyle with option years.

[kyuss275]

Originally Posted by Locke

Thats interesting, why would Babcock be available next year? I think it would take a miracle to pry him out of Detroit.

There is speculation that he might want a new challenge. I personally think he will stay with the wings. If he does become available I have to think the leafs will offer him a huge amount of money.

Beat by sureLoss. Lol

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

His contract is up and some speculation he is ready to move on. Been speculated that is why the Leafs extended Carlyle with option years.

Yep. It's sounding like teams are all wait and see with the Detroit situation. There has been smoke that both parties are mutually willing to go separate ways after next season. Would be a crazy year with the McDavid and Babcock post season sweepstakes.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by JayP

This whole idea that the Penguins lost because they didn't try hard enough or didn't want it enough is hilarious. If Blysma has to motivate his players to play hard in the second round of the playoffs that's a knock on the players, not Blysma. Here's a good article from an ex-AHLer that sums it up perfectly:

http://blogs.thescore.com/nhl/2014/0...s-in-playoffs/

Either way, the Penguins dominated game 7 and lost because Lundqvist stole the game. It's always hilarious to me how a goalie stealing a game/series turns the other side into a bunch of losers who didn't try hard enough. It happens every year, but somehow people just can't grasp that as well you can play good hockey and still run into a hot goalie and lose.

What's your excuse then for the horrible game five at home? Never even came out to play when the Rangers were down and out. That's the game where they may have lost the series. The reason the Sharks and Penguins lost their series is that they let their opponents back in. It's why I like the Hawks so much in that they seem to be able to take opponents out before letting the series get to a 7th game where the opponents goaltender can easily steal the game and the series.

[RedCoffee]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

Kypreos is speculating the Penguins may not be in a rush to hire a new coach because they believe Babcock will be available next year.

That's weird logic from Kypreos. What if the Penguins win the cup next year? Then Bylsma is suddenly a good coach again?

[Locke]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

His contract is up and some speculation he is ready to move on. Been speculated that is why the Leafs extended Carlyle with option years.

Thats interesting to know. I knew his contract was up but I figured Detroit would re-up him no questions asked....right after backing up a dumptruck full of cash for him to swim in a-la Scrooge McDuck.

I guess Mike Babcock coaching the Detroit Red Wings seems like one of the irrefutable constants of the universe.

[sureLoss]

Originally Posted by RedCoffee

That's weird logic from Kypreos. What if the Penguins win the cup next year? Then Bylsma is suddenly a good coach again?

well yeah... if Bylsma can coach the Penguins to another Stanley Cup, they will obviously keep him

if the Penguins don't see an obvious upgrade to Bylsma this season, but see one potentially coming next season, why not keep him around?

[CaptainYooh]

Bylsma is a bad coach that plays the same game plan over and over again regardless of the opponent. Good coach would revise game strategy and tactics to overpower the opponent's game plan. With the firepower he has at his disposal, Pittsburgh should be a conference finalist each and every season.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Locke

I guess Mike Babcock coaching the Detroit Red Wings seems like one of the irrefutable constants of the universe.

If you look at it from his point of view looking around at the age of the Wings top players he's probably looking at a team that won't be a serious cup contender for some time. Maybe he would like a new challenge on a team that has a lot of talent that has underperformed in the playoffs such as the Penguins, Sharks, or even Blues that could all be looking for new coaches in a year. Toronto with Shanahan could also be enticing as having success with the Leafs would make him loyalty in Ontario. I can't blame him for keeping his options open.

[Phanuthier]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Yep. It's sounding like teams are all wait and see with the Detroit situation. There has been smoke that both parties are mutually willing to go separate ways after next season. Would be a crazy year with the McDavid and Babcock post season sweepstakes.

I think the smoke is, most coaches get a vote of confidence on a multi-year deal to show they are in it for the long term. Babcock did not get that and it does not look like he will get a extention...

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Locke

Thats interesting to know. I knew his contract was up but I figured Detroit would re-up him no questions asked....right after backing up a dumptruck full of cash for him to swim in a-la Scrooge McDuck.

I guess Mike Babcock coaching the Detroit Red Wings seems like one of the irrefutable constants of the universe.

Babcock was on with the guys in the morning on the fan a week or so ago and was given every opportunity to say he was wanting to stay with Detroit long term but he didnt address it that way. Instead he said he has one year left and wants to see how things go before making any decisions about his future.

The other side of that though is the Wings will/are getting considerably younger in the next couple seasons and that Jeff Blashill is the guy who has molded the current and future group in Grand Rapids and he might be best to take the team over moving forward.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Phanuthier

I think the smoke is, most coaches get a vote of confidence on a multi-year deal to show they are in it for the long term. Babcock did not get that and it does not look like he will get a extention...

He was interviewed on 960 after the Olympics and they asked him about it and he didn't sound like a guy that was in a hurry to get those talks going. Personally I would like to see him in another city just because he's such a good coach and he may be wasting a few good years in Detroit.

Edit; Transplant beat me to it.