Make the Playoffs Mandate for Next Year

[Yakbutter]

Originally Posted by Mathgod

Then why not be the first? If an unplanned, "managed into the ground" rebuild can work (as it has for Pit/Chi/Tor and maybe Edm), then is it a stretch to believe that a pre-planned, carefully managed rebuild could also work?

I can certainly see why general managers are apprehensive about doing a scorched earth rebuild.

a) What if there is no "elite" talent in the year you tank?
b) Will the fanbase support a rebuilding team?
c) will owners allow a gm to rip the team apart?
d) Does the GM want to ruin his career by failing at supposed "intentional tank rebuild"?

Just lots of factors to consider and it's easy to see why teams don't intentionally tank. I just think it's unfair for fan's and media to criticize management for not doing something that no other team has really done in nhl history.

Not that I'm making excuses for management, their incompetence has directly lead the team to being put in this predicament. Most of which I would ascribe to the team not drafting a single impact player in the last decade.

[To Be Quite Honest]

Originally Posted by GGG

In the intermission Feaster stated the mandate is still to make the playoffs next year. I do not believe that this is a good idea and I think it shows the ownership are not taking the longer term view and still looking at short term success.

The difference to me between make the playoffs and make the playoffs 2 or 3 years from now will be free agency. Focusing on now will mean we sign longer term free agent deals on young free agents which means using up our cap space quickly.

A longer term approach would be to use thus years unique situation with buyouts and the cap coming down to sign ufas to 1 year deals who want to prove themselves. Then move them at the deadline for more assets. The shortsited approach is also shown in the jbo trade where we didn't keep salary to increase the return.

Moving Iggy and jbo made me believe that our ownership had turned the corner on the win now mind set. Now with Feasters comments I am concerned again. I think a much better goal would be playoofs 2 or 3 years from now. I am not trying to bash feaster as I am generally satisfied with the return at the deadline but ownerships insistance on playoffs rather than championships concerns me.

I'm of the full belief that you try to win every game. You have to say that.

Being in the open situation that the Flames have this next season, the Flames are completely in the drivers seat, but what are they driving? I currently am not happy with the foundation of the team and who would be? The untradeables are all tradeables. Screw your comments that "tradeables" isn't a word people. Players that are untradeable are Crosby, Malkin, Steven Stamkos, Tvares...

If Glencross is untradeable because of the NMC then that is fine. He has the best/most proven contract on the team.

I don't see the team picking up players that are worth less than their contracts. That's not a forward step. If the Flames pick up fair market value to cap restricted teams then that is great. I honestly am not too worries yet.

What if the Flames trade two first round picks to get lower in the draft for two top five players? Is it a risk? Yes. But is it a better play in a deep draft?

[EldrickOnIce]

I will not watch another game this season, if that is the effort.
Always play to win
Ship 75% of these bums out in the offseason

[Mathgod]

Originally Posted by nik-

The '04 run saved this team. Management clinging to a miracle was the detriment.

As much as '04 was awesome... I hate to say this but...

In a twisted kind of way, acquiring Kipper might have been a terrible thing for this team in a long-run perspective. If you ask me, since '04 this has been a mediocre team being propped up by one of the top goalies in the league and one of the best the game has ever seen. The team rode Kipper's play into playoff spots year after year and it disguised that this team was significantly worse than their records indicated and in need of a rebuild all along.

[Mathgod]

nm

[Yakbutter]

Originally Posted by Mathgod

As much as '04 was awesome... I hate to say this but...

In a twisted kind of way, acquiring Kipper might have been a terrible thing for this team in a long-run perspective. If you ask me, since '04 this has been a mediocre team being propped up by one of the top goalies in the league and one of the best the game has ever seen. The team rode Kipper's play into playoff spots year after year and it disguised that this team was significantly worse than their records indicated and in need of a rebuild all along.

You are not giving the team credit for acquiring Kipper. And after all, don't you have to consider Kipper as part of the team? It's not like he was here for a year or two, he gave the team almost a decade of elite goaltending.

What's more embarrassing, is that the management of the team failed to take Iginla, who was arguably the best forward in the game for 4-5 seasons and one of the best goalies in nhl history and not make it past the first round more than once.

Kipper was great for the franchise, the team just didn't take advantage of the time they had with him.

[Mathgod]

Originally Posted by Yakbutter

You are not giving the team credit for acquiring Kipper. And after all, don't you have to consider Kipper as part of the team? It's not like he was here for a year or two, he gave the team almost a decade of elite goaltending.

What's more embarrassing, is that the management of the team failed to take Iginla, who was arguably the best forward in the game for 4-5 seasons and one of the best goalies in nhl history and not make it past the first round more than once.

Kipper was great for the franchise, the team just didn't take advantage of the time they had with him.

No question, Sutter deserves credit for bringing him in. I'm just saying that Kipper made the team appear to be much better than it truly was and, combined with the '04 run, I think it led to unrealistic expectations as to what the team was capable of accomplishing over all these years. The ugly loss to Anaheim in 06 and the pwnjob at the hands of the Wings in 07 should have been huge red flags as to the limitations and shortcomings of the team.

[Rudee]

Based on the fact that the Flames failed to trade several more underachievers, it's a retool and not a rebuild. Was hoping for several more players to be traded today, but it didn't happen. Not a proper rubuild, just a retool.

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by Rudee

Based on the fact that the Flames failed to trade several more underachievers, it's a retool and not a rebuild. Was hoping for several more players to be traded today, but it didn't happen. Not a proper rubuild, just a retool.

Are you suggesting Feaster was slow today?

[nik-]

Originally Posted by Rudee

Based on the fact that the Flames failed to trade several more underachievers, it's a retool and not a rebuild. Was hoping for several more players to be traded today, but it didn't happen. Not a proper rubuild, just a retool.

Trading your two best players isn't a retool, but I don't disagree that I would have liked to see more.

But acquiring firsts is my new Crack Cocaine ... so ... yeah.

[Oil Stain]

Originally Posted by Yakbutter

Has a team ever really "decided" to do a complete blow up style rebuild?

St.Louis Blues coming out of the lockout. I think that was an ownership issue though.

[Corral]

There will be no ufa interested in playing here. No need to worry about what Edwards thinks should happen. No amount of $$ will convince talent to come here for at least 5 years. quick turnarounds require foresight and a strategy - precious little of that here.

[Francis's Hairpiece]

Originally Posted by Corral

There will be no ufa interested in playing here. No need to worry about what Edwards thinks should happen. No amount of $$ will convince talent to come here for at least 5 years. quick turnarounds require foresight and a strategy - precious little of that here.

Wow, it will be just like Edmonton!

[Corral]

Originally Posted by Francis's Hairpiece

Wow, it will be just like Edmonton!

With this team's draft record - it will likely be worse

[Francis's Hairpiece]

Originally Posted by Corral

With this team's draft record - it will likely be worse

An Edmonton fan taking a shot at the Flames drafting. That's rich.

[Hakan and the Loobs]

If the mandate is to make the playoffs next year then why would you trade JBo? His trade leaves a glaring hole on the blue line that can't be replaced with any of our current prospects. Unless you believe Brodie can step up and take his place or you can find someone on the UFA, trade market, or draft, the trade doesn't make much sense.

They try to find every synonym possible other than rebuild just so they can tell everyone "No, we're not rebuilding" and here's the proof.....we only traded away 2 of our core players when it really should have included at least 1 more.

[pikester]

Whats happening now will possibly lead to a "scorched earth" rebuild whether Feaster wants it or not. The idea of bringing in a handful of UFA's, a few college guys, & some less-than-elite prospects to circumvent or shortcut a lengthy rebuild is exactly how Edmonton ended up where they are now!

What ends up happening is those guys you brought in & put big hopes on don't quite pan out, then you really start to panic & move some of those guys out for next to nothing. Then you start to think/realise that some of the core guys you kept from before the rebuild are not quite right for the new vision of your team or just not good enough & start moving them out for pucks & picks.

Now the fanbase & ownership start getting real grumpy & antsy for some sign of success & the team starts bringing up prospects before they are ready which of course leads to disasterous results & the franchise starts going through rookies like dirty underwear!

At that point there are no alternatives but to invoke scorched earth.

Just saying, nobody starts out planning for a top to bottom full rebuild it just ends up there sometimes!

I suspect the Flames rebuild will take a minimum of 3-4 years & that's if the majority of Feasters prospects, picks, & aquisitions defy the odds & fully pan out.

[Oil Stain]

Originally Posted by pikester

I suspect the Flames rebuild will take a minimum of 3-4 years & that's if the majority of Feasters prospects, picks, & aquisitions defy the odds & fully pan out.

Yea that sounds about right for a minimum time for return to the playoffs.

Kings and Blues took 3 years each after tanking, and they had better management IMO.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by Corral

There will be no ufa interested in playing here. No need to worry about what Edwards thinks should happen. No amount of $$ will convince talent to come here for at least 5 years. quick turnarounds require foresight and a strategy - precious little of that here.

I think you're dead wrong. There will always be players looking for increased playing time and greater responsibility and challenge.

[robaur]

FORWARDS
Sven Baertschi ($1.425m) / Mikael Backlund ($0.761m) / Mike Cammalleri ($6.000m)
Jiri Hudler ($4.000m) / Tyler Bozak ($5.000m) / Roman Cervenka ($1.500m)
Alex Tanguay ($3.500m) / Nathan Mackinnon ($3.775m) / Lee Stempniak ($2.500m)
Curtis Glencross ($2.550m) / Matt Stajan ($3.500m) / Mason Raymond ($3.750m)
Lance Bouma ($0.578m) / Tim Jackman ($0.613m) /
DEFENSEMEN
Mark Giordano ($4.020m) / Dennis Wideman ($5.250m)
T.J. Brodie ($1.250m) / Chris Butler ($1.500m)
Derek Smith ($0.775m) / Tyler Wotherspoon ($0.925m)
Mark Cundari ($1.000m) /
GOALTENDERS
Karri Ramo ($3.000m)
Reto Berra ($1.250m)
------
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