Fleury ashamed to be Canadian...

[Faid1]

Majority oppresses minority, news at 11.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally posted by Lanny_MacDonald+Apr 21 2005, 04:14 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Lanny_MacDonald @ Apr 21 2005, 04:14 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-RougeUnderoos@Apr 21 2005, 08:59 PM

When someone says "Indians are stupid", which you did, it's racism. What is the difference between saying...

Black people are lazy.
White people are evil.
Jewish are cheap.

and "Indians are stupid"? Nothing. It's all the same thing. Tough break.

And I didn't play the trump card. In case you missed it the whole goddamn thread was dedicated to racism directed towards Indians in Canada. Obviously there is.

You've proven it.

Way to back up your argument. Too "stupid" or too "lazy" to do so?

On to racisim. I also say Americans are stupid, Liberials are stupid and George Bush is stupid, so what? Americans are stupid because they refuse to try and understand why the world has such a hate-on for them. Liberials are stupid because they couldn't beat a ######ed conservative in the last US election and have got caught with their hand in the cookie jar in Canada. George Bush is stupid, well I could go on for pages on why he is stupid. The first nations ARE stupid because they have p*ssed away BILLIONS of dollars in aid that could have been used to set up their nations for generations. That's not racist, that's a fact. You know, kind of like NHL players are stupid for allowing their leadership to p*ss away 1.3 billion dollars in salaries for no apparent reason. Or does that make me racist towards NHL players to?

That's the problem with people today. You can't say a damn thing about them with being labelled a racist or some other deviant social moniker that is mean to strike fear in the hearts of people everywhere. You don't have an argument so drop the "ist" bomb. Pretty fataing weak. I really don't care if you're red, white, black, blue, green or a nice hunter tarten, I am talking to you about a social group with a defined stereotype and social stigmas. If you can't get by a stereotype you're going to have a tough time dealing with society.

Something to remember is that it takes two people for a racist act to take place. Someone to say something, and then someone to be offended. I believed the offended is normally more guilty than the accused offender. When something is not overtly racist, saying somthing based on a long standing stereotype, and someone p*sses and moans about it I believe that is a window into that individual's soul and allows us to see their predisposition. Based on this interaction, and your willingness to personalize a general statement into something bigger than it is, I think it shows there is some deep seeded feelings of betrayal and hatred within yourself. You could have just called me an ******* and be done with it but you pulled a card that did not need to be played and threw it down immediately. Tips your hand. You yell racist you better look in the mirror. I don't think you're going to like the face that looks back at you. You yell racist, you're likely one yourself. [/b][/quote]
Nice nonsensical rant Lanny. I've been around a long time so I guess my number was bound to come up sooner or later.

If you care to look back at how the thread progressed, Jordon specifically asked if his behaviour was racist. Not me. He said he treats people differently, judges them on the basis of the color of their skin. Is that racism? What do you think?

You said all Indians were stupid.

Do I have to draw you a fataing diagram?

Regarding the actual situation... I don't even have an argument. Know why? Because I tend to agree with you. Billions have been p*ssed away and the system clearly doesn't work.

Re: Your last paragraph... time to step away from the Dr. Phil and the thesaurus.

[Tikk]

Hi Flames fans. In eng 20 I do a study on a case from Albertas past. racism isnt not the only thing native put up with. Here is the information if you are interested.

candian content

most of the people were natives because they didnt pass Iq test. also immigrants, homosexuals, poeple who have mental disability and gypsiys.

[Lanny_MacDonald]

Originally posted by RougeUnderoos@Apr 21 2005, 10:46 PM

Nice nonsensical rant Lanny. I've been around a long time so I guess my number was bound to come up sooner or later.

If you care to look back at how the thread progressed, Jordon specifically asked if his behaviour was racist. Not me. He said he treats people differently, judges them on the basis of the color of their skin. Is that racism? What do you think?

You said all Indians were stupid.

Do I have to draw you a fataing diagram?

Regarding the actual situation... I don't even have an argument. Know why? Because I tend to agree with you. Billions have been p*ssed away and the system clearly doesn't work.

Re: Your last paragraph... time to step away from the Dr. Phil and the thesaurus.

Yes, please draw this good ole boy redneck a diagram. I'm completely missing it. You agree with me, but I'm a racist.

And that's right, ALL indians are stupid. Their all fataing ######s that have to be reminded to breathe, in between jugging bottles of Lysol and sniffing oven cleaner. And while we're at it, ALL Germans are Nazis, ALL Americans are war-mongering neo-cons, ALL arabs are terrorists and ALL Canadians are beer-swilling-dogsled-riding-sealpup-killing-needle-dick-moose-fataers!

[Lanny_MacDonald]

Originally posted by Hakan@Apr 21 2005, 10:17 PM
Wow, that hole just keeps getting deeper and deeper.

Keep digging Lanny.

Educate me then. Prove me wrong and show everyone how you are right. You have the floor smart guy. Don't disappoint.

[Calgary Flames]

Originally posted by RougeUnderoos@Apr 21 2005, 04:46 PM
If you care to look back at how the thread progressed, Jordon specifically asked if his behaviour was racist. Not me. He said he treats people differently, judges them on the basis of the color of their skin.

COMPLETE AND UTTER BULLshinguard... I do not treat people by the colour of the skin. I do tend to judge homeless people based not on the colour of their skin but by the advantages and disadvantages they have gone through in their lives. I'm not giving a homeless native a single goddam cent knowing they probably got thousands of dollars for their 18th birthday... I will give an elderly, handicapped man some money, or buy him a sandwich after a small brief discussion that I know he won't go out and buy drugs.

If a drunk indian who can barely say a word comes up to me, I'll keep walking. If a homeless person who can actually have a conversation with me and I deem them to be decent human beings, why not help them out? But i'm being honest to god when I say this... I haven't encountered a single Native that fits the latter criteria downtown.

So I guess I am a racist... :unsure:

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally posted by Lanny_MacDonald@Apr 21 2005, 05:03 PM
And that's right, ALL indians are stupid. Their all fataing ######s that have to be reminded to breathe, in between jugging bottles of Lysol and sniffing oven cleaner. And while we're at it, ALL Germans are Nazis, ALL Americans are war-mongering neo-cons, ALL arabs are terrorists and ALL Canadians are beer-swilling-dogsled-riding-sealpup-killing-needle-dick-moose-fataers!

Right there -- that's my point. You get it. You don't need a diagram.

[Fozzie_DeBear]

Are Laff fans a race?

All kidding aside here is a test I found on prejudice that is kinda interesting you can do race, or Canada/US relations

Bias Test

Takes about 10 minutes

....Wow I bet many will think that it is fataing bullshinguard but it IS interesting nonetheless
________
Buy Portable Vaporizer

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally posted by Calgary Flames+Apr 21 2005, 05:12 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Calgary Flames @ Apr 21 2005, 05:12 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-RougeUnderoos@Apr 21 2005, 04:46 PM
If you care to look back at how the thread progressed, Jordon specifically asked if his behaviour was racist. Not me. He said he treats people differently, judges them on the basis of the color of their skin.

COMPLETE AND UTTER BULLshinguard... I do not treat people by the colour of the skin. I do tend to judge homeless people based not on the colour of their skin but by the advantages and disadvantages they have gone through in their lives. I'm not giving a homeless native a single goddam cent knowing they probably got thousands of dollars for their 18th birthday... I will give an elderly, handicapped man some money, or buy him a sandwich after a small brief discussion that I know he won't go out and buy drugs.

If a drunk indian who can barely say a word comes up to me, I'll keep walking. If a homeless person who can actually have a conversation with me and I deem them to be decent human beings, why not help them out? But i'm being honest to god when I say this... I haven't encountered a single Native that fits the latter criteria downtown.

So I guess I am a racist... :unsure: [/b][/quote]
Seriously man, what do you know about native benefits? How do you know they got thousands of dollars on their 18th birthday? What do you know about the rest of it? Have you studied the situation? Familiar with treaty rights, land claims, mineral rights and all that? Do you know how many different bands (is that even the name) in Canada and the different circumstances and benefits they get?

Me neither.

Don't you think it's rather difficult to judge people based on something you know nothing about?

Really, I couldn't care less about who you do and don't give money to, but to come on here and try to claim that you understand exactly where someone came from and how they were treated based completely on the color of their skin -- which is what you are doing, obviously -- is ridiculous.

"I deem to be a decent human being..."

[Calgary Flames]

I never claimed to know anything regarding any of this really... I do however have opinions that may seem ignorant but I really couldn't care less my friend...

In regards to how I know that kids with Native status getting money (and lots of it for their 18th Birthday) I knew a native guy during High School so he may have been full of shinguard, but I trusted him. This kid was failing classes left and right and sometimes all he would talk about was how he was going to spend his government money when he turned 18... It wouldn't suprise me if I saw him on 8th ave asking for money now sadly...

What I do know as a fact is that Natives get benefits that most Canadians do not.. I don't know who exactly gets it, or how much and never claimed to know such things...

I also don't know if this is fact but don't natives get Free post secondary education? or discounts?? How is that fair to regular joe tax paying canadian?

I think reserves do need more help in getting their own people in order, better role models... Chris Simon for one helps out alot in his home town, so instead of Fleury bitching, why doesn't he do anything about it??

[Hakan]

I don't usually get baited with this kind of dialoge but I'll bite for the only reason that I feel we need to work together to eliminate racism. I hope you think and reflect on this Lanny instead of trying to posture and make this into some stupid internet arguing competition which you seem so fond of doing.

On to racisim. I also say Americans are stupid, Liberials are stupid and George Bush is stupid, so what? Americans are stupid because they refuse to try and understand why the world has such a hate-on for them. Liberials are stupid because they couldn't beat a ######ed conservative in the last US election and have got caught with their hand in the cookie jar in Canada. George Bush is stupid, well I could go on for pages on why he is stupid. The first nations ARE stupid because they have p*ssed away BILLIONS of dollars in aid that could have been used to set up their nations for generations. That's not racist, that's a fact. You know, kind of like NHL players are stupid for allowing their leadership to p*ss away 1.3 billion dollars in salaries for no apparent reason. Or does that make me racist towards NHL players to?

Where do I begin? You try to deflect the legitimate criticisms of your previous raciall tinted posts with this paragraph attempting to point out how calling First Nations people stupid is no different than calling any group of people stupid or any individual stupid. For the record, calling a group of liberals stupid is not racist you are correct. Liberals, by group identity, are defined by a political ideology or party identification not by a race. Liberals also self identify, in that the members define what they are not, other people or other groups outside of their group. But saying that a group of people defined largely by historical colonial ideas of race, such as First Nations, is stupid is, basically, the textbook definition of racism. So your point here about the other groups is moot. By what the group itself is supposed to reflect is what you will essentially criticize. So by saying that Liberals are stupid you are saying that the Liberal Party, liberal ideology and the people that believe in that are stupid. This really shouldn't be too much of a debatable point.

You then say that a whole group (which is racially defined) is stupid because they lost billions of dollars. I agree that there is a problem in how First Nations people are funded by our government but by solely pointing them out as the problem is also racist. Do you really think that First Nations people are out there just to screw us tax payers while they get to live the high life of government handouts and hopelessness? Do you really think that First Nations people are the problem here because they forced our government to give them all this money when all they really want is their land, their political agency and their honour back? If you have been resting on a reserve with sparse education, no training on how to manage money little alone enough money to actually save would you have done any different? Would you be in a healthy mental state to go take on the world if your parents were alcoholics because they were abused so bad in residential schools and then went on to abuse you? Don't answer those questions. Just think about it.

Essentialism aside, there are massive historical grievances which live on through generations and government policies that do not, as much as you might like to delude yourself into thinking, give each person an equal footing in our country. Does that make them stupid? Do they deserve your racism because of it? I know that none of us were personally responsible for how First Nations people were treated for centuries but that still does not replace the burden that we must bear for First Nations peoples' situations in the here are now. Either way, us colonizer peoples who have benefited greatly in this land at the expense of the First Nations people and we will have to be prepared to pay the costs of getting these people the significant opportunities, communities and resources to redress these historical wrongs.

That's the problem with people today. You can't say a damn thing about them with being labelled a racist or some other deviant social moniker that is mean to strike fear in the hearts of people everywhere. You don't have an argument so drop the "ist" bomb. Pretty fataing weak. I really don't care if you're red, white, black, blue, green or a nice hunter tarten, I am talking to you about a social group with a defined stereotype and social stigmas. If you can't get by a stereotype you're going to have a tough time dealing with society.

There's a constructive way to address a problem and there's a racist way. You chose the latter. I find your comment about stereotypes interesting. Are you further justifying racist stereotypical views? What is so important about stereotypes for your daily functioning that you think you need to defend them? You saying that you are to us about a racially defined social group defined by stereotypies and social stigmas and then use all those stereotypes and stigmas to make your point better? I really don't understand what you mean here. I understand that you are trying to justify what you previously posted but to me you're eating your own tail.

Something to remember is that it takes two people for a racist act to take place. Someone to say something, and then someone to be offended. I believed the offended is normally more guilty than the accused offender. When something is not overtly racist, saying somthing based on a long standing stereotype, and someone p*sses and moans about it I believe that is a window into that individual's soul and allows us to see their predisposition. Based on this interaction, and your willingness to personalize a general statement into something bigger than it is, I think it shows there is some deep seeded feelings of betrayal and hatred within yourself. You could have just called me an ******* and be done with it but you pulled a card that did not need to be played and threw it down immediately. Tips your hand. You yell racist you better look in the mirror. I don't think you're going to like the face that looks back at you. You yell racist, you're likely one yourself.

It actually doesn't take two people for a racist act to take place. It takes one person to be racist. When I'm at work and hear some ass hole say something racist he did that on his own accord without anyone else. The rest of this paragraph is just incoherent new age drivel. I don't hate myself and because of that think you have racist ideas; you have racist ideas, it has nothing to do with me. Although you do make an interesting point, unwittingly at the end. I do believe that race is such a causative feature of our society that it is impossible to be completely non-racist. That doesn't justify the attitudes that Fleury is talking about or the other dialogue in this thread. It does create a necessity for personal reflexion to find where those racist ideas come from and how to eradicate them.

I don't want to be all attacking and sorry if I sound like it. Racism sucks. The attitudes we have to the First Nations people sucks and I really don't like it. I believe that before we start blaming them for the problems plaguing their society, we should take a look at how we as individuals and our society are making this a problem.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally posted by Calgary Flames@Apr 21 2005, 05:50 PM
I never claimed to know anything regarding any of this really... I do however have opinions that may seem ignorant but I really couldn't care less my friend...

In regards to how I know that kids with Native status getting money (and lots of it for their 18th Birthday) I knew a native guy during High School so he may have been full of shinguard, but I trusted him. This kid was failing classes left and right and sometimes all he would talk about was how he was going to spend his government money when he turned 18... It wouldn't suprise me if I saw him on 8th ave asking for money now sadly...

What I do know as a fact is that Natives get benefits that most Canadians do not.. I don't know who exactly gets it, or how much and never claimed to know such things...

I also don't know if this is fact but don't natives get Free post secondary education? or discounts?? How is that fair to regular joe tax paying canadian?

I think reserves do need more help in getting their own people in order, better role models... Chris Simon for one helps out alot in his home town, so instead of Fleury bitching, why doesn't he do anything about it??

So basically you "knew one guy who was going to get money back in high school", and that paints the whole picture for you?

You don't even know why he got that money. As was suggested, that money could be coming from mineral rights. In other words, that money he "got" was his.

My mom makes money off the mineral rights on a farm her grandparents bought in the 20's and it's not even in the family anymore. I'm next. Is there a problem with that?

Natives do get "benefits" most Canadians do not. I would guess that a lot of those benefits come as part of a long-ago signed contract. I'm not a historian but I'm quite certain the white man wasn't the one under pressure during the negotiations.

[JiriHrdina]

Originally posted by Calgary Flames@Apr 21 2005, 05:50 PM


I also don't know if this is fact but don't natives get Free post secondary education? or discounts?? How is that fair to regular joe tax paying canadian?

I believe this is indeed true but in terms of how money should be dolled out I can't see how anyone could disagree that helping Aboriginals with post secondary education is a bad thing. If they are more educated they will get better careers and become role models for others. All good things.

[duncan]

Originally posted by Flashpoint@Apr 21 2005, 03:47 PM

The Canadian government never advocated genocide against any of the groups you mentioned.

They did against Natives. It was called the "White Paper".


Edit: By "genocide" I mean - "The systematic and planned extermination of an entire national, racial, political, or ethnic group." The White paper called for the elimination of distinctions between natives and non natives. It stated that by the year 2000 (it was written in 1969) all "Indians" would be assimilated into white society, or dead.

"White Paper" never advocated genocide, it was meant to advocate equality between all races, equal rights and resposibilities. The concept was getting Natives of reservations, and into common society. The basis of thought being you can't have equality if you have special status or public barriers. What was to happen to Natives was no different than what happened to Asians brought over to work on the railroads, or freed slaves. They were brought out of the special "chinese labour camps" and displacement towns, and set to mix into society.

To call this genocide, belittles those groups that truly faced genocide, such as; the Jews in Nazi Germany, Armanians and Assyrians in Turkey(1915), the Kurds in Iraq, Muslims in Bosnia, and Tutsis in Rwanda. There was no call for the elimination of Native Culture or Spirituality, just the special status. We live in a multi-cultural society, with neighbours of all races and creeds, and each has their own culture. Growing up in an area that was heavily Dutch, didn't take my Scottish heritage or culture away. I didn't face Genocide, but I did assimilate.

[FlamesAddiction]

The whole "reservation" concept is pretty primitive by today's standards. It's not quite as bad as an apartheid system, but it isn't that far off either.

[Lanny_MacDonald]

Originally posted by Hakan@Apr 21 2005, 11:59 PM
I don't usually get baited with this kind of dialoge but I'll bite for the only reason that I feel we need to work together to eliminate racism. I hope you think and reflect on this Lanny instead of trying to posture and make this into some stupid internet arguing competition which you seem so fond of doing.

Where do I begin? You try to deflect the legitimate criticisms of your previous raciall tinted posts with this paragraph attempting to point out how calling First Nations people stupid is no different than calling any group of people stupid or any individual stupid. For the record, calling a group of liberals stupid is not racist you are correct. Liberals, by group identity, are defined by a political ideology or party identification not by a race. Liberals also self identify, in that the members define what they are not, other people or other groups outside of their group. But saying that a group of people defined largely by historical colonial ideas of race, such as First Nations, is stupid is, basically, the textbook definition of racism. So your point here about the other groups is moot. By what the group itself is supposed to reflect is what you will essentially criticize. So by saying that Liberals are stupid you are saying that the Liberal Party, liberal ideology and the people that believe in that are stupid. This really shouldn't be too much of a debatable point.

You then say that a whole group (which is racially defined) is stupid because they lost billions of dollars. I agree that there is a problem in how First Nations people are funded by our government but by solely pointing them out as the problem is also racist. Do you really think that First Nations people are out there just to screw us tax payers while they get to live the high life of government handouts and hopelessness? Do you really think that First Nations people are the problem here because they forced our government to give them all this money when all they really want is their land, their political agency and their honour back? If you have been resting on a reserve with sparse education, no training on how to manage money little alone enough money to actually save would you have done any different? Would you be in a healthy mental state to go take on the world if your parents were alcoholics because they were abused so bad in residential schools and then went on to abuse you? Don't answer those questions. Just think about it.

Essentialism aside, there are massive historical grievances which live on through generations and government policies that do not, as much as you might like to delude yourself into thinking, give each person an equal footing in our country. Does that make them stupid? Do they deserve your racism because of it? I know that none of us were personally responsible for how First Nations people were treated for centuries but that still does not replace the burden that we must bear for First Nations peoples' situations in the here are now. Either way, us colonizer peoples who have benefited greatly in this land at the expense of the First Nations people and we will have to be prepared to pay the costs of getting these people the significant opportunities, communities and resources to redress these historical wrongs.

There's a constructive way to address a problem and there's a racist way. You chose the latter. I find your comment about stereotypes interesting. Are you further justifying racist stereotypical views? What is so important about stereotypes for your daily functioning that you think you need to defend them? You saying that you are to us about a racially defined social group defined by stereotypies and social stigmas and then use all those stereotypes and stigmas to make your point better? I really don't understand what you mean here. I understand that you are trying to justify what you previously posted but to me you're eating your own tail.

It actually doesn't take two people for a racist act to take place. It takes one person to be racist. When I'm at work and hear some ass hole say something racist he did that on his own accord without anyone else. The rest of this paragraph is just incoherent new age drivel. I don't hate myself and because of that think you have racist ideas; you have racist ideas, it has nothing to do with me. Although you do make an interesting point, unwittingly at the end. I do believe that race is such a causative feature of our society that it is impossible to be completely non-racist. That doesn't justify the attitudes that Fleury is talking about or the other dialogue in this thread. It does create a necessity for personal reflexion to find where those racist ideas come from and how to eradicate them.

I don't want to be all attacking and sorry if I sound like it. Racism sucks. The attitudes we have to the First Nations people sucks and I really don't like it. I believe that before we start blaming them for the problems plaguing their society, we should take a look at how we as individuals and our society are making this a problem.

Great, so I'm branded a racist here. I can accept that. Interesting that only a few months ago I was one of the few standing up for the ragheads (I get to call them that, because I'm a racist) should not have the imperialist neo-conservative baby killers (I can say that because I'm a racist) dictate what political system they live under. At the same time I was saying that it was deplorable that the imperialist neo-conservative baby killers (I can say that because I'm a racist) were letting the spearchuckers of the Sudan (I can say that because I am a racist) be slaughtered for the sake of control of the Iraqi oilfields. I was also saying that the kikes (I can say that because I am a racist) were exacerbating the situation in the middle east by pushing the terrorists-in-training from Palestine (I can say that because I am a racist) out of their rightful homes. Interesting positions for such a racist to take, but hey, YOU know better.

I find this whole discussion to be quite amusing. Being branded a racist is quite a stretch for those who know me. I make the odd ethnocentric joke, like the next guy, but I know where to draw the line. I interface well with all races and respect their differences and demand that people respect their culture and customs. But I am also not afraid to call a spade a spade and say when those same people that I will stand up and protect have crossed a line and cannot hide behind the RACE CARD (which is what Fleury has been playing very consistently since he tried to play for the native team in northern Alberta). Some people just are never comfortable with that, especially in today's politically correct world where we have to kiss each other's asses and not risk harm anyone's sensibilities (and we wonder why we are falling behind the rest of the world in so many ways?), but that's their problem not mine. I'll call a spade a spade and if makes them feel better calling me a racist, then so be it.

You may think the final paragraph was new age babble, but its textbook sociology. My wife just earned her doctorate in psychology writing a brilliant discertation on the educational success stories of minorities in the Ronald McNair scholarship program, a program dedicated to the promotion of minorities which she administered for over seven years (she's going to p*ss herself laughing when she hears I'm a racist), and working with her on that gave me much insight into sociology and psychology. It also let me see what a lot of those minorities felt about subjects like racism and dealing with other minorities. But hey, that's just real world research and it has no bearing on a discussion like this, right? We'll just keep going along with the feeling of "don't pick on a minority because its not politically correct to do so, no matter how much evidence there is to support the stereotype being promoted". Its obvious that the natives have it all right and are doing what is best for them, including p*ssing billions of dollars down the toilet while continuing to have a hand out looking for more. Us white devils (they can call us that because they are not racists) are nothing but oppressors and revelle in the opportunity to hold the heel of our boots down across the throat of the red man.

Now excuse me, I have some laundry to do. I have to go press my sheet for tomorrow night's rally and cross burning, which takes place immediately after we lose all our money at the Casino Arizona (owned and operated by the Salt River Indians).

[Lanny_MacDonald]

Originally posted by fotze@Apr 22 2005, 01:36 AM
I am sure Lanny will say cut all the funding and let them try to swim. But I think there can be a more efficient way.

Nope. I'm completely against that. I'm all for cutting them off in the future, but right now is the wrong time. They need to know that they are on their own after day X and build toward that. Fund them until that date then the money stops. If they wish they can have interest free loans for certain types of projects (infrastructure and social programs) over the next 25 years, but that needs to stop as well. They need to get on their own feet and make it happen for themselves. No more victim charade. No more pointing at the white man and crying over something that happened 200 years ago. Its over, move on. Don't cry for your ancestors who are nothing but memories and worm food nut nuild for your childrens future and their childrens future. Leave them a legacy that is something more than a tired cliche that they have to live down. Leave them something that they CAN take pride in and can build upon.

Oh, and have them learn to work WITH the people who live around them rather than against them. The whole Weaselhead issue has been a sore spot for as long as I can remember and its about nothing but politics. The revenues the natives could bring in from that roadway project could likely build them a fantastic educational facility where they could promote their culture to their own children and those of other races as well.

[Thunderball]

Originally posted by FlamesAddiction@Apr 21 2005, 07:40 PM
The whole "reservation" concept is pretty primitive by today's standards. It's not quite as bad as an apartheid system, but it isn't that far off either.

I think many Natives, Canadians and Politicians would love to see the end of reservations, myself being one of them. Its self-defeating for them, and a problem for society.

The problem is simply how to get rid of the reserves, integrate Natives into society and have them as productive members without being labelled as history's greatest monsters for assimilating their culture into our own.

[Lanny_MacDonald]

Originally posted by fotze@Apr 22 2005, 01:55 AM
Lanny isn't a racist he's a jackass for posting at HFboards trying to reason with ######s, if anything he is too tolerant.

I take offense to that you beer-swilling-dogsled-riding-sealpup-killing-needle-dick-moose-fataer! I'm a racist! Hakan and Rouge say so.

[Lanny_MacDonald]

Originally posted by Thunderball@Apr 22 2005, 02:03 AM
I think many Natives, Canadians and Politicians would love to see the end of reservations, myself being one of them. Its self-defeating for them, and a problem for society.

The problem is simply how to get rid of the reserves, integrate Natives into society and have them as productive members without being labelled as history's greatest monsters for assimilating their culture into our own.

Question for you. Natives are very connected to the land and want to be able to maintain that connection to the land in as pristine a manner as possible, so how do you propose they have the opportunity to continue to do this without reservations?

Question for everyone. How can the plains indians, who were nomads and had no permanent home, claim that they have any more connection to the land than anyone else? Plus how do you explain the polution and wildlife issues (over hunting and fishing) that take place on reserves when these same people claim to have a connection to the land and a responsibility to that land?