NHL 15 Thread

[Ashasx]

nm

[SuperMatt18]

I never played EASHL so that wasn't an issue for me, but do understand both sides concerns. Guessing that with the new online coding it just took too long to get the 6 v 6 gameplay working in an acceptable manner.

Not too concerned about the game needing a patch to improve on game modes either, what game doesn't patch in new content after the fact?

GTA V patched in Multiplayer after the fact.

Last of Us patched in Multiplayer after the fact.

Fact of the matter is that pretty much all games now patch in content after the fact. Hell when Fifa first introduced Ultimate Team it was patched in months after release.

As long as the patch is timely (within 30 days of release) then it is fine. That is the real question, how fast can EA patch the game to make the required game modes available.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Joborule

The developers also intend to patch in some more content.

But they won't say what that content will be, when it will arrive or how much of it there is, which are all pretty important aspects of damage control here.

They are admittedly selling an incomplete game for full price.

How many roster updates were there last year? Is this more or less than we can expect for patches for this game to bring it up to it's scheduled release quality? What is the expected timeline for this roll out?

Is EASHL a target for patching? If it is, why not say so, if it isn't, why not say that too?

EA is taking the disingenuous approach to the community here, and are getting a more sustained negative reaction because of it.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Russic

It is available though. All he said was that it's lacking depth, which isn't quite the same.

I understand the frustration with a lack of games on a new console. To be fair though, we should all be aware of what the first year of a console cycle is like. The classic games that people remember on a system typically don't come out until years 2, 3, and beyond. When I bought my PS4 I fully expected to keep my PS3 running right along side it because I remember what the N64 and PS2 launches were like.

I also get the frustration with this game, and I totally get why some people would take a pass on this version. What I don't get is some peoples total inability to accept that sometimes to move forward you have to take a few steps back. If EA is to be believed (and I realize many don't), then the engine they were using was essentially maxed out for what they could do. When people ask what they were doing for the last 2 years, they were building a new engine. I'm not sure if anybody here has specific knowledge of what that takes, but my understanding is that it isn't overly simple. I just don't think you can build a new engine and then copy and paste features from the old one into it. Maybe it is that simple, I have absolutely no idea of what it takes. All I know is that the crowd that points fingers at this developer team and calls them lazy has a curious lack of game developers in it.

Unfortunately, we don't really know because they won't really tell us, which, up to this point, doesn't bode well considering the track record we're dealing with here of less information eventually giving way to less product.

[bubbsy]

Originally Posted by Russic

It is available though. All he said was that it's lacking depth, which isn't quite the same.

I understand the frustration with a lack of games on a new console. To be fair though, we should all be aware of what the first year of a console cycle is like. The classic games that people remember on a system typically don't come out until years 2, 3, and beyond. When I bought my PS4 I fully expected to keep my PS3 running right along side it because I remember what the N64 and PS2 launches were like.

I also get the frustration with this game, and I totally get why some people would take a pass on this version. What I don't get is some peoples total inability to accept that sometimes to move forward you have to take a few steps back. If EA is to be believed (and I realize many don't), then the engine they were using was essentially maxed out for what they could do. When people ask what they were doing for the last 2 years, they were building a new engine. I'm not sure if anybody here has specific knowledge of what that takes, but my understanding is that it isn't overly simple. I just don't think you can build a new engine and then copy and paste features from the old one into it. Maybe it is that simple, I have absolutely no idea of what it takes. All I know is that the crowd that points fingers at this developer team and calls them lazy has a curious lack of game developers in it.

your point is valid enough. the only concerns i have is that i'm paying full price for a game that is no longer offering as much content to play (luckily i don't play eashl), and the mode i do play which was incomplete in the first place (ie. still can't sign soon to be ufa during the year, progress/development completely busted, lack of any type of enhancements to the mode almost since its inception, etc) is now being deemed incomplete by EA. That's a scary thought.

I'm aware they will patch it in, which is good, but they will be recognizing my game purchase revenue on day1, and without having any clarity, it could be half a year till they patch this in, meaning i am only playing the game for half the playing cycle till the next release. Naturally, i could not purchase and just wait till the patch date, when i could likely get the game second hand or on sale, but i'll admit i'm a sucka.

This message would have been much better recieved with a discount. "We haven't been able to get everything in that is expected from the product, and will concede a 15% discount on the game price".

[AcGold]

I didn't play a single game of anything besides EASHL so it's a pretty easy no buy for me. It would be great if 2k came back and forced EA to make better games.

[Chill Cosby]

I still don't understand this fantasy that 2k coming back would improve EA NHL.

The thing I find most confusing is it's coming from the same people who are arguing that NBA 2k is great and that EA NBA is a joke, so the whole "it would improve EA" scenario doesn't seem legit.

[AcGold]

competition breeds higher quality, fairly simple concept that has been proven in economics over and over. Monopolies breed complacency

[Ashasx]

Before NHL 09, I'd say 2K put out a much better NHL game for at least 3 years.

EA stepped it up with 09 giving us truly new experience.

Since then, not much has changed, and 2K is out of the game.

[bubbsy]

Originally Posted by Chill Cosby

I still don't understand this fantasy that 2k coming back would improve EA NHL.

The thing I find most confusing is it's coming from the same people who are arguing that NBA 2k is great and that EA NBA is a joke, so the whole "it would improve EA" scenario doesn't seem legit.

i'm thinking that this year 2k and nba live will be far more at par, after nba live got whooped by a fair margin as they kicked off their next gen battle last year.

i thought it was economics 101 that having competition in the industry is best for the customer? curious why this principle would not hold true in a sporting game. I would imagine competition would result in more innovation and maybe better price for the customer.

where you may be correct i suppose is that companies like 2k and ea will learn from their nhl and more recent nba experiences, where 1 bad year can result in one brand being 2 years behind from a development/re-development standpoint to their competitor. That's likely what happened in the hockey game competition where ea came up with the skillstick and changed the landscape, and 2k could try to catchup, but would be a year behind or would have to double their annual investment to get back into level competition with ea. The draw back from consumers in this could be less innovation (ie. risk taken on) by either company, in order to reduce the chance of falling too far behind in any given year. Kind of like what we see in the mobile industry here in canada,where it's all a fast-follow reaction marketing on how many units are being given at the various key pricepoints, rather than any of the big 3 really trying to challenge the market with something new in their pricing or offering.

what's interesting is that ea has been willing to keep nba live alive despite a horrendoes 2014 campaign, in a year where 2k really upped their game. nba live 2015 lives on, and releases on the same day as 2k14 no less.

[Flash Walken]

The best possible scenario in my opinion would be a company like Steam releasing sports games without the licensing.

Chad McCarthy, Right Wing for the Calgary Crusties.

If the licensing fees are prohibitive to producing a quality game, cut out the licensing fees.

Have these guys be the character models:

[Kipper is King]

I was looking forward to this game so much, it is bewildering to me that I am suddenly considering buying FIFA or Madden instead.

I probably will buy NHL 15, but a few weeks ago I felt more enthusiastic, for sure.

[Igottago]

Originally Posted by Chill Cosby

I still don't understand this fantasy that 2k coming back would improve EA NHL.

The thing I find most confusing is it's coming from the same people who are arguing that NBA 2k is great and that EA NBA is a joke, so the whole "it would improve EA" scenario doesn't seem legit.

Because it happened before. The 2k series made the EA product look like a joke back in the PS2/Xbox era. Forced EA to really step it up for the next generation. Of course it doesn't guarantee it, but as a consumer, why would you be against more options?

[Russic]

Originally Posted by bubbsy

your point is valid enough. the only concerns i have is that i'm paying full price for a game that is no longer offering as much content to play (luckily i don't play eashl), and the mode i do play which was incomplete in the first place (ie. still can't sign soon to be ufa during the year, progress/development completely busted, lack of any type of enhancements to the mode almost since its inception, etc) is now being deemed incomplete by EA. That's a scary thought.

I'm aware they will patch it in, which is good, but they will be recognizing my game purchase revenue on day1, and without having any clarity, it could be half a year till they patch this in, meaning i am only playing the game for half the playing cycle till the next release. Naturally, i could not purchase and just wait till the patch date, when i could likely get the game second hand or on sale, but i'll admit i'm a sucka.

This message would have been much better recieved with a discount. "We haven't been able to get everything in that is expected from the product, and will concede a 15% discount on the game price".

It sucks, but if I were in your shoes I'd hold off on buying it until the patch arrives. From the sounds of it you'll just be annoyed if you don't. I didn't really find the Be a GM mode lacking to a point of frustration (I probably don't even use 25% of the features in it), so I'm not terribly concerned.

If I had to guess I'd say the patch will arrive sometime around the new year. By the time the patch comes down you can likely find it on sale and save some money.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Igottago

Because it happened before. The 2k series made the EA product look like a joke back in the PS2/Xbox era. Forced EA to really step it up for the next generation. Of course it doesn't guarantee it, but as a consumer, why would you be against more options?

Hey man, you should just be happy that you get even ONE video game based on hockey.

I feel like I"m talking to soup nazi defenders sometimes re: EA. "DOn't like it well then don't buy it."

Uh, I want to like it.

[Anduril]

Never had a chance to experience EASHL but now that it's out of the final product, I can share in some of the disappointment that everybody is feeling.

Then again, all I did was play every single game for 7 seasons on FIFA14. Maybe this will be okay assuming the AI isn't stupid on Be a GM like it was in the past.

[Chill Cosby]

Originally Posted by AcGold

competition breeds higher quality, fairly simple concept that has been proven in economics over and over. Monopolies breed complacency

It's a simple concept, but show me how it's been applied in the gaming sphere between EA and it's direct competitors.

What seems to happen generally is complacency in a niche product, or the outright discontinuation of one product.

I know some here have differing opinions, but EA has developed an NHL product that has huge amounts of depth, accuracy, and is overall a well made game year after year. This is objectively true. You can like it or dislike it based on particular features or lack there-of, but they are well made games. Most of the problem seems to be stagnation, which is a major negative factor.

What do I think happens if 2k comes back? The same thing that happened last time. They both focus on different areas of the game, touting "this is what WE do best" because neither has the budget to trounce the other on everything, and eventually one becomes more of a niche product and eventually disappears entirely. You're then left with one game that does a few things really well, and still has holes that people will inevitably complain about, because it's human nature to complain.

At no point in the 2k/EA battle did we get one perfect game. Both always had issues, but the issues were different.

Do I think 2k returning would be bad in any way?
No.

I just think it's silly to hope for 2k to come back so that EA can improve and you can keep buying EA. It's far more practical to desire the return of 2k so you have choice, rather than for the sake of competition. Even with 2k, both games are going to have holes, and quite frankly, EA is probably going to have the same holes it has now, and just improve the stuff around it.

If I can ask an honest question, what do people think EA would improve if 2k came back?

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Chill Cosby

If I can ask an honest question, what do people think EA would improve if 2k came back?

I think EA would probably release a full game if their competitor was also releasing a full game.

[AcGold]

Originally Posted by Chill Cosby

It's a simple concept, but show me how it's been applied in the gaming sphere between EA and it's direct competitors.

The NFL games by 2k were better 10 years ago than Madden games are now. Having a choice allowed us to choose between two brands competing for customers. You argument is clouded by emotion and optimism, the 2k games were also sold at a lower price so the customers both had a choice and had to pay less. Haven't bought a football game since EA took over and am not buying the new NHL game so EA being the lone producer is pushing me out of the market.

I don't want 2k back to push EA, I always found 2k games had drastically better animations and just want a 2k game. EA games always have a weird jittery look to it that don't look natural. It was the competition that pushed 2k to release such good games

[TjRhythmic]

The thing with hockey is that's it's not that big of a title outside of Canada. A few places in the US, maybe a small market in Europe. What's the incentive for a company like 2k to put money and development hours into a game that will at best - break even. As a company, the risks FAR OUTWEIGH the gains that would come from it.

I admit, I jumped on the emotional bandwagon like everyone else when I heard the news, but I remember when NHL 07, the first one on the new systems, and it looked great, but compared to the ps2/xbox version it just wasn't as refined and as deep. I think all they really had was pretty much a season mode. And as Russic alluded to, this version is no different. They did pretty much build this game from the ground up, regardless of what people think. It's a little more then wavey jerseys and arenas. It's a brand new engine... we got spoiled with game modes and features in the last iterations that now we all feel entitled to have them in the this one, myself included. And after reading Russic's calm posts on the subject I realized that this is not nhl 14, or 13, or 12. This is a brand new game... I'm treating it as such, and, I'm ok with it.

Still, no EASHL sucks, but life goes on...