2018/2019 Trade Speculation and Rumors

[David Struch]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Is that relevant though?

I just thought they (Bouma, Bennett) were somewhat similar types of players for the Flames, bottom six, physical, hard nosed, energy type forwards. (in the lower 2 million price range)

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

Both of them broke 30 points once in their careers (so far). It's not as far off as we'd like to believe, and give Bouma some credit with his career year it wasn't half-bad.

One is a career .36 ppg player, the other a career .21 ppg player ... that's not all that close in my mind.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by David Struch

I just thought they (Bouma, Bennett) were somewhat similar types of players for the Flames, bottom six, physical, hard nosed, energy type forwards. (in the lower 2 million price range)

You have to be really down on Bennett to think that.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by Karl

One hit wonder. The rest of the time he sucked and was barely NHL calibre at best, other than that one season.

And? Treliving clearly signed him for what he brought that "one-hit wonder" year. Which is pretty much on par with what Bennett is bringing today.

Treliving wasn't expecting that the 24 year old Bouma would regress, at least not by so much, that they would have to buy him out. That would be ridiculous of course. Nope, they signed him because they saw him as a player who can provide energy in a bottom nine role while chipping in offensively when put in a second line role (like he did when he played with Backlund that year). The biggest difference between them was that Bouma was relied on heavily that year as a special team player getting a ton of short handed time.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by Bingo

You have to be really down on Bennett to think that.

Or remember how Bouma played that year.

He was the top unit penalty killer and put up 16 goals. Providing energy when he was out and willing to drop the gloves when needed. There's a reason he was called a warrior by everyone.

2014-2015 Bouma is every bit as good as 2018-2019 Bennett and that's not an insult too anyone.

[Flamenspiel]

^No comparison, if you actually watched the players, I don't think Bouma ever pulled off a successful deke in the NHL. Bennett at his floor is what Bouma was at his peak. I have seen Bennett go through a whole team a few times and then hit the post, he is unlucky and maybe lacks a top scoring touch, but a very skilled player.

If we use the 70s Habs as as a reference point, I would classify him as a Mario Tremblay type of player. A middle 6 guy who can score with sandpaper.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

Or remember how Bouma played that year.

He was the top unit penalty killer and put up 16 goals. Providing energy when he was out and willing to drop the gloves when needed. There's a reason he was called a warrior by everyone.

2014-2015 Bouma is every bit as good as 2018-2019 Bennett and that's not an insult too anyone.

Or ...

Lance Bouma 14/15 shot 15.4%, his other years he averaged 5.5% and the Flames paid him for the bounces.

Great guy, good foot soldier, but Bennett has never had a "everything goes in" season, though his rookie year was close!

[Oling_Roachinen]

Bennett's on pace for 12 goals. If you're basing your opinion of either of these players on just their goal-scoring numbers neither are good. They were similar players, energy guys who played up and down the line up. I'm not sure where the confusion lies.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

Bennett's on pace for 12 goals. If you're basing your opinion of either of these players on just their goal-scoring numbers neither are good.

You brought up Bouma scoring 16 goals, I didn't.

Bennett's average year is pretty close to Bouma's career year, if you bring shooting percentage into said career year you can see why it didn't repeat.

They're not the same player at all.

[Karl]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

And? Treliving clearly signed him for what he brought that "one-hit wonder" year. Which is pretty much on par with what Bennett is bringing today.

Treliving wasn't expecting that the 24 year old Bouma would regress, at least not by so much, that they would have to buy him out. That would be ridiculous of course. Nope, they signed him because they saw him as a player who can provide energy in a bottom nine role while chipping in offensively when put in a second line role (like he did when he played with Backlund that year). The biggest difference between them was that Bouma was relied on heavily that year as a special team player getting a ton of short handed time.

But Bouma did, and that's that. No that's not on Tre that's on Bouma, but it happens.

Bouma wouldn't be in the Swiss league now at the age of 28 (29 in March) if he wasn't horrible.

Difference is Bennett's current level is as good as Bouma's peak level. And Bennett has a lot more actual puck skill than Bouma has or ever did have at his best.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Why are we assuming this is Bennett's mid-level? He's been this way for four years now...

And any offensive skill Bennett provides is negated by the defensive skill of Bouma. You guys are selling Bouma's year short but he was a warrior, bottom six player who could play up the lineup. That's what Treliving thought when he signed him to 2.2M. That's what Treliving will be signing Bennett for this off-season. Hopefully it works out better.

[Karl]

Originally Posted by Flamenspiel

Bennett at his floor is what Bouma was at his peak.

This.

[Karl]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

Why are we assuming this is Bennett's mid-level? He's been this way for four years now...

And any offensive skill Bennett provides is negated by the defensive skill of Bouma. You guys are selling Bouma's year short but he was a warrior, bottom nine player who could play up the lineup. That's what Treliving thought when he signed him to 2.2M. That's what Treliving will be signing Bennett for this off-season. Hopefully it works out better.

For one season only.

Bennett's current level is pretty much as good as what Bouma was when Bouma was at his peak in that one magical season.

Other than that, Bennett's been a lot better than Bouma and it's really not close at all.

[The Yen Man]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

Why are we assuming this is Bennett's mid-level? He's been this way for four years now...

And any offensive skill Bennett provides is negated by the defensive skill of Bouma. You guys are selling Bouma's year short but he was a warrior, bottom six player who could play up the lineup. That's what Treliving thought when he signed him to 2.2M. That's what Treliving will be signing Bennett for this off-season. Hopefully it works out better.

Because the guy is 22? Guess we'll have to agree to disagree, but I still see Bennett progressing. There is no way Bennett is going to top out as Lance Bouma. That's just reaching IMO.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by Karl

Bennett's current level is pretty much as good as what Bouma was when Bouma was at his peak in that one magical season.

Yeah, and Bouma signed at his peak. Pretty much the point being made. They didn't sign him a year before, they didn't sign him a year after. They signed him when they thought they were getting a warrior, high energy, tough as nails, bottom six player who could play on the second line if needed. That could describe Bennett all the same.

Except where Bennett has offensive skills and may see the PP, Bouma had defensive skills and lead the Flames PK.

If they knew he would be partying himself off the team, obviously they wouldn't have given him a contract at all. But really what happened after the contract is moot.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

Why are we assuming this is Bennett's mid-level? He's been this way for four years now...

And any offensive skill Bennett provides is negated by the defensive skill of Bouma. You guys are selling Bouma's year short but he was a warrior, bottom six player who could play up the lineup. That's what Treliving thought when he signed him to 2.2M. That's what Treliving will be signing Bennett for this off-season. Hopefully it works out better.

Not sure what you mean by mid level, but Bennett has been pretty consistent through his four years ... his best and worst years are within 10 points of his average.

Bouma was a great guy and a team first player, but he was a shot blocker.

Of the 24 forwards that played 150 or more minutes for Calgary in the three years 2013-2016 ...

Lance Bouma is

4th last in shot attempts against per 60
8th last in shots against per 60
5th last in scoring chances against per 60
9th last in high danger chances against per 60

Brandon Bollig bested him in every single category.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

Yeah, and Bouma signed at his peak. Pretty much the point being made. They didn't sign him a year before, they didn't sign him a year after. They signed him when they thought they were getting a warrior, high energy, tough as nails, bottom six player who could play on the second line if needed. That could describe Bennett all the same.

Except where Bennett has offensive skills and may see the PP, Bouma had defensive skills and lead the Flames PK.

If they knew he would be partying himself off the team, obviously they wouldn't have given him a contract at all. But really what happened after the contract is moot.

Bouma three year window on the PK

11 forwards with 50 or more minutes of PK time.

Bouma is

11th in shot attempts against
10th in shots against
8th in scoring chances against
8th in high danger chances against

He wasn't leading anything

Bennett won't be signing at a peak, his year to year is pretty steady.

[Karl]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Not sure what you mean by mid level, but Bennett has been pretty consistent through his four years ... his best and worst years are within 10 points of his average.

Bouma was a great guy and a team first player, but he was a shot blocker.

Of the 24 forwards that played 150 or more minutes for Calgary in the three years 2013-2016 ...

Lance Bouma is

4th last in shot attempts against per 60
8th last in shots against per 60
5th last in scoring chances against per 60
9th last in high danger chances against per 60

Brandon Bollig bested him in every single category.

Wow. Ouch.

And Bollig is by my accounts clearly way worse than Bouma. Bollig is like McGrattan, Westgarth, Ivanans level of bad.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Not sure what you mean by mid level, but Bennett has been pretty consistent through his four years ... his best and worst years are within 10 points of his average.

Mid level was ninja-edited by another poster.

A "warrior" energy player in the bottom six, who could (somewhat) produce when given a role as winger to Backlund was deemed worthy of a 3 year, 2.2M contract by Treliving in 2015.

I'm thinking that a "warrior" energy player in the bottom six, who could (somewhat) produce when given a role as winger to Backlund will, adjusting for cap-inflation, be deemed worthy of a 2.5M contract for 3 years this off-season. We'll see.

Barring some crazy-ass playoff performance by Bennett

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

Mid level was ninja-edited by another poster.

A "warrior" energy player in the bottom six, who could (somewhat) produce when given a role as winger to Backlund was deemed worthy of a 3 year, 2.2M contract by Treliving in 2015.

I'm thinking that a "warrior" energy player in the bottom six, who could (somewhat) produce when given a role as winger to Backlund will, adjusting for cap-inflation, be deemed worthy of a 2.5M contract for 3 years this off-season. We'll see.

Barring some crazy-ass playoff performance by Bennett

So you are tossing career averages out the window and ignoring that Bennett will be coming off what is an average year, vs Bouma coming off a career and clearly unsustainable year due to a 3X shooting percentage?

These players aren't comparable.

Hathaway and Bouma is a better discussion.