Arena negotiation discussion. UPD: Flames release their proposal

[pepper24]

King starts press conference with sick Filipino lady story again.....

[Makarov]

Originally Posted by Gaskal

"Flames are paying for everything" schtick, sigh.

Honestly, why continue to beat that drum when we've all seen that it is simply not true?

[nfotiu]

Originally Posted by Bingo

You're just getting this now? I've said it for two years.

I think both men have egos the size of sputnik, it's a real problem in this negotiation. I think I've said that about 50 times in the last 18 months.

Can I assume you're ok with me thinking that about King, but not about Nenshi?

Can I get a copy of the site owner magna carter so I can make sure I don't step outside the lines again?

And you really can't define what affects my stance any more than I can label or paint anyone else. You can disagree with my stance, but you don't get to build a fence around it as you don't have all the information.

This is the like the pessimist calling the realist an optimist. Nobody gets to claim they know where the lines are.

I'd like to THINK (not know) that I sit somewhere in the middle on this because I don't like either men, and I do see some but not a lot of public money as a pretty fair landing spot given the sports comparables.

Hopefully that doesn't disappoint you again.

The part that rubs me the wrong way is when you call Nenshi names that are implying that he is looking out for his own interests ahead of the cities. Everything he has presented seems like he is reasonably looking after the cities interest and is in line with your some/not a lot of public money stance.

You are not suggesting that King is doing anything other than looking out for the Flames best interest and accusing him of having ulterior motives to benefit himself.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Table 5

Let's be realistic though, as a tax payer and business owner, there is nothing fair about another private business getting free land, tax breaks, and so much assistance. I can't go in next week and get the same type of deal proportionally, and neither can any other business.

Except these type of deals are cut all the time. You don't think that O&G companies don't get all sorts of subsidies and breaks on leases or taxes to come and remain here? This stuff happens every day.

The real fair thing here would be for the Flames to collect capital, buy land, build an arena, and hang up their shingle. That's fair because those are the same parameters the rest of us work under.

This is just a debate about how much special treatment they deserve.

I agree with you. That is exactly what the debate is about. It sucks that the business you work for doesn't have the type of clout, or are in the right industry, to get this special treatment. But that is the nature of the beast. Trust me, I would love to see things to be as simplistic as you suggest, but that is not the reality of the world we live in. Tax breaks and subsidies are a reality and we have to accept they are not going away, but try and make them work for us. That is the head of the needle we find ourselves dancing on. We're trying to figure out just how many hookers and how much blow its going to take to strike a deal.

[Hockeyguy15]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

King says they will release their full proposal next week.

I this like in school when you didn't do your report, so you got it extended past the weekend so you could start it?

[Senator Clay Davis]

Originally Posted by Lord Carnage

Gotta consider this though... it's "our money", and people defend their money.

1) We all love the Flames. Everything is good.
2) Flames want to raise our ticket prices - Flames Suck!
3) Our property taxes are going to go up $10 a year to allow us to pay for a Flames arena - Flames Suck!

Some people are more moderate on points 2/3, and others are 100% unforgiving...

Point number 2 is one of the biggest reasons people are against public money for this. There is no other for profit business that people would accept public funds going to that business, only for that business to turn around and increase prices. Except this. I'm guessing here, but most of the supporters of public money for this won't be affected that much if prices go up 20% and the beer is now $12 per. Many are season ticket holders and while they won't be pleased with a big price increase, they can take the hit.

But it's not them who we should be considering, it's the average fan who just wants to go to a game or two a year. And they end up losing. The concert argument, well, Ticketmaster is Ticketmaster and getting face value tickets to any big show is pretty difficult. So again, the wealthy fan who can afford to pay the 100-500% markup on StubHub is fine. The average fan? Obviously not. But that's just the way sports are going nowadays I suppose, the rich fans are being catered to more and more and the plebs are expected to be happy they can watch on TV.

[Johnny Makarov]

Ken King "the Calgarynext project was briliant!"

[Bane]

I see King is still trying to claim the ticket tax as part of "Flames revenue", even though its meant to pay for 1/3 of the building, and is not actual revenue.

[Otto-matic]

Kristen Odland‏Verified account @Kristen_Odland 25s25 seconds ago
More
King said the last time they met was July 31 and they expressed their position. Said they "surrendered" then.

[Kipper is King]

King is being very condescending.

[robaur]

- King says the 1/3, 1/3, 1/3 plan is fake news.
- The Flames 1/3 part comes from Flames revenue
- The 1/3 ticket tax comes from Flames revenue
- The 1/3 City contribution that is eventually repaid comes from Flames revenue
- The land contribution is an accounting trick - nothing more. Flames won't own the land
- The infrastructure contribution is misleading because those projects will go on even if no arena

[Split98]

Originally Posted by Split98

So is this going to be what the 11:30MT press conference will be about?

Announcing a deal has been reached? Great.
More posturing and getting my hopes up over a Jagr/Iginla deal? I hate you forever.

The thing I hate most about Flames ownership is their abuse of fan's excitement surrounding their team. Playoffs and season starts have been their platform lately and it demonstrates a pretty terrible commitment to the on-ice product.

I hate you forever.

Skip the press conference, just get this done. You're sitting on the cash to build the arena, and want the tax payers to pitch. It's silly, it's greedy and it's skeevy. You make a fortune on our passion for your team, and you have a hand out and want to complain about how hesitant everyone is to give you a financial push from their own pockets.

And you threaten to move the team to get your way.

You're the villain, you are hated, and you will always be hated for this. If you paid for this yourself, reaped the benefits yourself and continued to improve the on-ice product everyone is happy.

Of note: This will not impact my taxes one bit -- and I STILL think this is garbage.

[RM14]

The Flames were surprised by the Mayors video on Monday morning, that featured a Flames employee (Jon Cornish)?? oooooo-kayyyy.

[jammies]

Ticket tax as part of arena deal: "That's our revenue, our money!"
Ticket tax as part of CBA negotiations: "That's not revenue, it's tax!"

signed:
Ken King

[greyshep]

Wow I am finding his tone so arrogant.

Having a press conference for this is really pathetic.

[stone hands]

i irrationally dislike ken king, his attitude, his position, his grandstanding, his everything

i'm staying out of this debate from now on because he's soured my opinions forever

[Johnny Makarov]

God. Ken King is such a whiner. Even if he is the mouthpiece for the owners,he is clearly out of his league with the press. Kinda makes sense since he was in charge at the Calgary Sun before.

[automaton 3]

Does KK think this press conference will actually help matters?

What a mess.

[TheFlamesVan]

A lot of open minds and ears in this thread.

[Flash Walken]

"there are a lot of places to make money in sports, other than here."

- Ken King