The Future Looks Bright: Nemisz and Backlund win on Sunday

[flamesrule14]

Originally Posted by MJM

Half the problem with Nemisz, is the hype Sutter through out there to deflect attention away from his piss-poor drafting record. This kid was setup to fail with the expectations put on him.

What expectations have been put on him exactly? How has he been setup to fail?

[MJM]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

Pessimism running rampant as always. I'm trying to remember the last time the Flames had so many decent CHL prospects going pro at the same time.....and I can't. Not only that, but all of these prospects had successful junior careers with very good organizations. While that doesn't gaurantee their success at the pro level, it's nothing to scoff at.

Neimisz - An important part of a back to back Memorial Cup championship team, and quite possibly one of the best Junior teams ever.

Wahl - A top scorer and leader on a very successful string of teams. Also a Memorial Cup champion.

Bouma - Captain of one of the most consistant WHL teams in his time there. Not a big time scorer, but obviously alot of character and leadership qualities. Also, a Memorial Cup champion.

Brodie & Cameron - Both key parts of a team who registered one of the best records in CHL history.

These are all really solid young hockey players, who have learned what it takes to be part of a winning organization at the junior level. Does it make them surefire NHL prospects? No, but you think it would atleast put the majority of Flames fans in the "Cautiously Optimistic" category as opposed to full on Pessimism.

I'm sorry, but take Nemisz off the Windsor Spitfires, and it makes absolutely no difference.

And if the rest of the garbage (outside of Wahl) is your defence of a weak prospect pool, you seriously are out to lunch, Every team in the NHL has those type of players.

[MJM]

Originally Posted by flamesrule14

What expectations have been put on him exactly? How has he been setup to fail?

When they drafted this guy, the Flames pimped him out as a top line player that had big upside. The guy is, at most, a third line/4th line. They put unrealistic expectations on the kid from the get go.

When you have to resort to pointing towards an unsigned overaged player in the OHL to defend our prospect pool, you might as well raise the white flag. There's a big difference between a 16/17 year old boy scoring 40-50 goals in the OHL, and a 21 year old man.

[prizefighterinferno]

Originally Posted by MJM

When they drafted this guy, the Flames pimped him out as a top line player that had big upside. The guy is, at most, a third line/4th line. They put unrealistic expectations on the kid from the get go.

When you have to resort to pointing towards an unsigned overaged player in the OHL to defend our prospect pool, you might as well raise the white flag. There's a big difference between a 16/17 year old boy scoring 40-50 goals in the OHL, and a 21 year old man.

Just want to point out Cameron's goal total and age for his OHL career.

Age: 16 Goals: 20
A: 17 G: 33
A: 18 G: 41
A: 19 G: 37 (81 points, First team all star)
A: 20 G: 53 (First team all star)

He's a decent player, a 3rd rounder in his draft year. No need to crap on the guy because the Kings have so many contracts. Pointing him out shouldn't be waving the white flag in regards to Calgary's prospects, rather an example of a good addition regardless of the manner of acquisition.

As for your doubts about Nemisz ever being an NHL player, fair enough. I just want to say that I disagree very much. I'm certainly not saying he's going to be a top six player, but if David Moss can be an every day player, Nemisz can easily surpass his accomplishments to date. I look to Bob Boughner saying with absolute confidence prior to the Mem Cup win that Nemisz will be a solid NHL player. I look to the many accounts, some by dedicated Spits followers on this board, that Nemisz has improved his skating immensely this year. I look at his adaptation in dropping from first line right wing to second line center in more of a shutdown capacity as willingness to do whatever it takes to help the team and work on important aspects of his game.

People can say all they want about him benefitting from playing on a loaded Spits team but I think its a little overboard to say that a player with 70 points in 51 games wouldn't be missed by his team. He helped make the Spits as good as they were.

I'm not saying by any means that Nemisz, or Calgary's forward prospects on the whole, are going to be of high quality. However I am more of an optimist than some and think that several will end up being quality NHL players, even though it may seem to some that at 18, 19, 20 years old, these players won't continue to get better.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by MJM

I'm sorry, but take Nemisz off the Windsor Spitfires, and it makes absolutely no difference.

And if the rest of the garbage (outside of Wahl) is your defence of a weak prospect pool, you seriously are out to lunch, Every team in the NHL has those type of players.

This is what I wrote....

Pessimism running rampant as always. I'm trying to remember the last time the Flames had so many decent CHL prospects going pro at the same time.....and I can't. Not only that, but all of these prospects had successful junior careers with very good organizations. While that doesn't gaurantee their success at the pro level, it's nothing to scoff at.

Neimisz - An important part of a back to back Memorial Cup championship team, and quite possibly one of the best Junior teams ever.

Wahl - A top scorer and leader on a very successful string of teams. Also a Memorial Cup champion.

Bouma - Captain of one of the most consistant WHL teams in his time there. Not a big time scorer, but obviously alot of character and leadership qualities. Also, a Memorial Cup champion.

Brodie & Cameron - Both key parts of a team who registered one of the best records in CHL history.

These are all really solid young hockey players, who have learned what it takes to be part of a winning organization at the junior level. Does it make them surefire NHL prospects? No, but you think it would atleast put the majority of Flames fans in the "Cautiously Optimistic" category as opposed to full on Pessimism.

Somehow you must have read it as......

Pessimism running rampant as always. I'm trying to remember the last time the Flames had so many SURE-FIRE CHL prospects going pro at the same time.....and I can't. Not only that, but all of these prospects had successful junior careers with very good organizations. They are gauranteed to make the NHL and become instant impact players.

Neimisz - An important part of a back to back Memorial Cup championship team, and quite possibly one of the best Junior teams ever.

Wahl - A top scorer and leader on a very successful string of teams. Also a Memorial Cup champion.

Bouma - Captain of one of the most consistant WHL teams in his time there. Not a big time scorer, but obviously alot of character and leadership qualities. Also, a Memorial Cup champion.

Brodie & Cameron - Both key parts of a team who registered one of the best records in CHL history.

These are all CAN'T MISS young hockey players, who have learned what it takes to be part of a winning organization at the junior level. Does it make them surefire NHL prospects? Hell YES, and you think it would atleast put the majority of Flames fans in the "SUPER DUPER Optimistic" category as opposed to full on Pessimism.

[flamesrule14]

Originally Posted by MJM

When they drafted this guy, the Flames pimped him out as a top line player that had big upside. The guy is, at most, a third line/4th line. They put unrealistic expectations on the kid from the get go.

I think that is simply not true. I'd love to see anywhere where someone in the flames organization has "pimped" Nemisz to the extreme. So much so that they are setting him up to fail according to you. Simply hasn't happened.

[flambers]

Originally Posted by flamesrule14

I think that is simply not true. I'd love to see anywhere where someone in the flames organization has "pimped" Nemisz to the extreme. So much so that they are setting him up to fail according to you. Simply hasn't happened.

I agree, fact is until Nemisz plays some sort of Pro Hockey (AHL level to start with), folks have no clue what type of player he is.

[Canada 02]

Flames will have 5 players from the 2008 draft playing in Abbotsford next season. I vaguely recall a Darryl Sutter interview from years ago were he said the organization needs to draft at least two player each draft who will eventually play in the NHL.

Getting 5 minor league pros bodes well for accomplishing the goal of 2 NHLers

They likely will have one from the 2009 draft as well. Gaelan Patterson turns 20 this summer, has already played 3 games with the Heat. More importantly, he has played 4 years of junior, and Sutter doesn't like them to play 5, so I believe it's unlikely he plays an overage year

[JustAnotherGuy]

Originally Posted by nemanja2306

Pelech? Irving? Erixon? Howse? Wahl? Negrin?

Okay, make that 5. But I won't go any higher. Add Negrin, Pelch and then one other. Irving definitely not.

[nemanja2306]

Originally Posted by JustAnotherGuy

Okay, make that 5. But I won't go any higher. Add Negrin, Pelch and then one other. Irving definitely not.

While Irving struggled this year, mostly due to injuri I might add, he's still a good prospect. Also, you can add Ortio to the list who has shown some promise in Europe. Although, to be fair, we'll se how he adjusts to NA style when he comes over. I also forgot to add in Cameron. And I don't you can ask for more for a team that picked late in the draft.

[Cactus Jack]

Maybe you should look up how many teams have found good-great players outside of the top 10 in the last 10 years. With the exception of maybe 3 teams, all teams have found at least 2-3 guys (and in some cases many, many more) that are very good to elite NHLers. I'm not talking guys like Boyd, Prust, Pardy, I mean:

Weber, Green, Keith, Giroux, both Richards, Getzlaf, Perry, Morrow, Ericksson, Neal, Stasny, Lucic, Bergeron, Krejci, Oshie, Berglund, Perron, Backes, Kesler, Raymond, Edler, Miller, Semin, Gagne, Giroux, MacDonald, Hemsky, Booth, Letang, Goligoski, etc.

[Johnny Rotten]

Originally Posted by Cactus Jack

Maybe you should look up how many teams have found good-great players outside of the top 10 in the last 10 years. With the exception of maybe 3 teams, all teams have found at least 2-3 guys (and in some cases many, many more) that are very good to elite NHLers. I'm not talking guys like Boyd, Prust, Pardy, I mean:

Weber, Green, Keith, Giroux, both Richards, Getzlaf, Perry, Morrow, Ericksson, Neal, Stasny, Lucic, Bergeron, Krejci, Oshie, Berglund, Perron, Backes, Kesler, Raymond, Edler, Miller, Semin, Gagne, Giroux, MacDonald, Hemsky, Booth, Letang, Goligoski, etc.

That's a fair comment...to a point. It's still FAR too early to judge some of the players in the more recent drafts (i.e. Nemisz, Wahl, Erixon, Negrin, and not to mention Pelech, Irving).

I don't have any misconceptions, though; a better job with scouting is probably needed, and I think Jim Playfair is good guy to develop players...just look what he did with a makeshift lineup this year.

[BurningYears]

Originally Posted by Cactus Jack

Maybe you should look up how many teams have found good-great players outside of the top 10 in the last 10 years. With the exception of maybe 3 teams, all teams have found at least 2-3 guys (and in some cases many, many more) that are very good to elite NHLers. I'm not talking guys like Boyd, Prust, Pardy, I mean:

Weber, Green, Keith, Giroux, both Richards, Getzlaf, Perry, Morrow, Ericksson, Neal, Stasny, Lucic, Bergeron, Krejci, Oshie, Berglund, Perron, Backes, Kesler, Raymond, Edler, Miller, Semin, Gagne, Giroux, MacDonald, Hemsky, Booth, Letang, Goligoski, etc.

is that to make up for bobby clarke forgetting his name at the draft?

[Cactus Jack]

Did you see when Hemsky was drafted and immediately interviewed by TSN? He expressed how happy he was to be going to Toronto!

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by MJM

I've seen him play about 5 OHL games this year, and each every time I've come away with the thought he was nothing more than an above average junior player whose stats are inflated from playing on a team that is ten notches above any other junior team in the country. I seriously question whether this guy will ever play in the NHL, which is unacceptable for a first round pick given our lack of prospects.

Anyone who can honestly say that they watched the World Juniors and didn't notice he couldn't keep up with the play, has their Flames glasses on. He was the exact same way in my opinion at the Memorial Cup when the competition got tougher. People can point to his injury, but I think it's more than that.

Half the problem with Nemisz, is the hype Sutter through out there to deflect attention away from his piss-poor drafting record. This kid was setup to fail with the expectations put on him.

I'll be honest that I haven't seen a large sample size of his body of work but from what I have seen in the World Juniors and Memorial Cup I don't recall ever being so underwhelmed by a Flames prospect. Honestly he doesn't even look like much of an AHL player. I'd put my money on Mitch Wahl having a better professional career than Nemisz. I hope that there's more to the guy but I'm not holding my breath on him becoming an important player for the Flames.

[ipuckedyourmom]

I like Backlund but Nemisz will never be more then a third liner in the NHL, at best. Even that is a long shot. In the WJC, Nemisz was the worst player on Team Canada when playing against the best in his age group. I wouldn't get my hopes up of him contributing for the flames anytime soon.

[Trojan97]

I'm pretty firmly in the middle when it comes to my thoughts on Nemisz. I just wanted to add that I was at the Memorial Cup and saw all the games and I came away extremely unimpressed with everything about him save his immense size. If he fills out, we might have a beast on our hands but right now he struggles along the boards against much smaller opponents. I had my eye out for him all tournament long and I don't remember being impressed by his individual play more then once or twice all week. He came across as a very awkward player to me.

I agree with MJM that taking Nemisz off that team would hardly have caused Windsor to skip a beat. I also agree that until we see him in the American League, we have no real idea what kind of player he is going to definitively be.

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by Trojan97

I agree with MJM that taking Nemisz off that team would hardly have caused Windsor to skip a beat. I also agree that until we see him in the American League, we have no real idea what kind of player he is going to definitively be.

Accurate post.

I've seen Nemisz a ton and I don't think he's got top six potential in the NHL.... but hopefully he can prove me wrong.

[Lunatik]

Originally Posted by MJM

I'm sorry, but take Nemisz off the Windsor Spitfires, and it makes absolutely no difference.

And if the rest of the garbage (outside of Wahl) is your defence of a weak prospect pool, you seriously are out to lunch, Every team in the NHL has those type of players.

as Nemisz regained his form the Spitfires became even more dominant, so I'm not so sure that is accurate... perhaps they may not have missed his offensive contributions but they definitely missed his defensive play and PK ability

[bubbsy]

Originally Posted by Lunatik

as Nemisz regained his form the Spitfires became even more dominant, so I'm not so sure that is accurate... perhaps they may not have missed his offensive contributions but they definitely missed his defensive play and PK ability

tough to be a prospect. Kids with a lot of pressure on them to be meet the high expectations.

That being said, can it be assumed, that if his prowess, as you put it, are defensive play /PK, that this first rounder will likely be a disappointment?