Four Mounties apparently killed near Mayerthorpe

[calf]

Originally posted by BlackArcher101@Mar 3 2005, 11:31 PM
Okay... in the midst of all this...

Did someone else find the way this went down really odd? It didn't seem like a bust at all, but also procedures weren't followed correctly.

I mean really, who sends in 4 rookies to do a raid?

yea - from what I've heard it was a stolen property bust of some sort, not a drug bust. And they cordoned off the area, but the shooter managed to get on the property when that happened?

It's definately more mysterious than 2 sets of 2 cops showed up and were shot on site.

[KowOfLang]

Originally posted by Displaced Flames fan+Mar 3 2005, 08:28 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Displaced Flames fan @ Mar 3 2005, 08:28 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-KowOfLang@Mar 4 2005, 03:13 AM

Or maybe the government should just legalize it and regulate it...

I think you should just concern yourself with your own business...I RARELY smoke it, but I think that telling people to quit because 4 cops were killed is ridiculous.

THAT is far-fetched.

P.S., For a lot of people, illegal economy provides a better standard of life than legal employment could. Whoever killed these cops is SICK, but a lot of pot growers are just chilled out folks...Not evil crime-doers.

Take a trip, read a book...
Look outside of the "Alberta way of life/way of thinking".

Instead of just categorically dismissing Sylvanfan's correlation maybe you could provide the logic that leads you to that conclusion.

You may THINK it's far fetched or tell yourself that it is to further justify your indulgence, but Sylvanfan showed a logical progression that leads to a conclusion. Can you?

P.S. Just because someone can make a better living illegally than they can legally doesn't mean they should does it? Does that justify illegal activity in your mind? [/b][/quote]
Yeah I can. It's already de-criminalized.
Legalize it. Monitor it. Regulate it.
I think the same should be done with prostitution.

Both of them are going to happen anyway so why not make them safer?

As an anthropology student, I've learned and I think that making a living in the illegal economy is more a societal problem than a problem of specific people, per say. We discriminate so terribly as a culture, that it's an inevitable progression.

[KowOfLang]

Originally posted by fotze@Mar 3 2005, 08:32 PM
Kowoflang, you ain't winning this argument and you will eventually be painted as a murderer supporter so I'd quit while you are ahead.

I think it should be legalized (I don't smoke it btw) but that being said it is currently illegal so the police have to do their job to get rid of these vermin. There is no excuse whatsoever for the actions.

I don't condone these actions at all. I think it's terrible. But this stuff doesn't happen a lot. When was the last time you heard of 4 cops killed in a drug bust in Canada????

A murderer supporter? Please. That's ridiculous. I'm talking about pot. Not murder.
Pot should be legalized. If it were legal, this wouldn't have happened.

[KowOfLang]

Originally posted by The Familia@Mar 3 2005, 11:36 PM
I hate these grow ops. Nothing but trouble. These are lazy classless fools who don't wanna work and want to make a fast dollar. I get happy every time I see a drug bust...

I'm glad that there are people like you out there who prove how much we as a society need to open our eyes. Many are "lazy classless fools"...Others? Well even though I don't agree with their choice of work, it's a REAL problem in North American culture that we alienate vast numbers of people, and relegate them to jobs which are huge blows to a person's dignity and self-worth. Would you rather work as a Janitor making 25K/year? Or a Marijuana grower making triple that?

I know what my answer would be if I weren't so fortunate to have an opportunity to have a nice life. You have to keep in mind that not every "criminal" is an evil person. If you think that they are, then you are sadly misguided and I feel immense pity for you.

[Knut]

Originally posted by Flaming Homer+Mar 4 2005, 01:09 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Flaming Homer @ Mar 4 2005, 01:09 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

Sorry he is the scum of the earth and I don't consider him a person in the matter. Right now four police officers were murdered.

I'm not very fond of police officers, but I don't wish death on nobody that doesn't deserve it. BUT I don't give anybody special emotions if one cop shot four con's I'd feel the same way as if one con shot four cops. Wether you like drug dealers or not for some of them it's a living. The way I see it is it's no different than one person shooting four others. I don't remember anybody calling the Columbine shooters scum, just misguided. [/b][/quote]
That is the worst thing i have ever read on an internet message board.

Obviously cops dont just go around shooting bad guys at will, usually they shoot them when being shot at. The shooting usually begins with the other party. Besides, i think that the only way 4 cops could be killed by one man is with a high powered rifle from a distance......that is cowardice to the extreme.

The more bad guys killed the better. If there were no cops where would we be... ANARCHY!! is that what you want. Every one just going around doing whatever the hell they want to whoever the hell they want. Sure, maybe you ran into one or two power hungry policemen, but it is not like they shot at you. You make me sick with that statement. It makes me sick that people can hold Cops with such low regard.

And dont give me any garbage about it is their living because our society has pushed them down to have no option.... THAT IS BULLSH*T. THere is always an option. Drug dealers take the easy way out.... it is not a way of life... it is a crime.

Policemen put their life on the line for a job that does not pay enough.

Rest in Peace Officers.

I apologize for the rant... but this issue hits me in multiple ways. One, a good friend of mine is an RCMP officer in that area, and i have not heard anything about his fate and Two: I am an occasional pot smoker and cant help feeling as thouhg i have contributed to this. I am going to quit using Marijuana all together.


OH yeah... and ##### the politicians who are going to try and skew this to forward their own political agenda.

[KowOfLang]

Originally posted by Hesla+Mar 4 2005, 12:19 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Hesla @ Mar 4 2005, 12:19 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

I'm not very fond of police officers, but I don't wish death on nobody that doesn't deserve it. BUT I don't give anybody special emotions if one cop shot four con's I'd feel the same way as if one con shot four cops. Wether you like drug dealers or not for some of them it's a living. The way I see it is it's no different than one person shooting four others. I don't remember anybody calling the Columbine shooters scum, just misguided.

That is the worst thing i have ever read on an internet message board.

Obviously cops dont just go around shooting bad guys at will, usually they shoot them when being shot at. The shooting usually begins with the other party. Besides, i think that the only way 4 cops could be killed by one man is with a high powered rifle from a distance......that is cowardice to the extreme.

The more bad guys killed the better. If there were no cops where would we be... ANARCHY!! is that what you want. Every one just going around doing whatever the hell they want to whoever the hell they want. Sure, maybe you ran into one or two power hungry policemen, but it is not like they shot at you. You make me sick with that statement. It makes me sick that people can hold Cops with such low regard.

And dont give me any garbage about it is their living because our society has pushed them down to have no option.... THAT IS BULLSH*T. THere is always an option. Drug dealers take the easy way out.... it is not a way of life... it is a crime.

Policemen put their life on the line for a job that does not pay enough.

Rest in Peace Officers.

I apologize for the rant... but this issue hits me in multiple ways. One, a good friend of mine is an RCMP officer in that area, and i have not heard anything about his fate and Two: I am an occasional pot smoker and cant help feeling as thouhg i have contributed to this. I am going to quit using Marijuana all together.


OH yeah... and ##### the politicians who are going to try and skew this to forward their own political agenda. [/b][/quote]
Whoa, gaucho...if you feel so passionate then DO something. Start a revolution, brother!

[jam26]

Originally posted by BlackArcher101@Mar 4 2005, 06:31 AM
Okay... in the midst of all this...

Did someone else find the way this went down really odd? It didn't seem like a bust at all, but also procedures weren't followed correctly.

I mean really, who sends in 4 rookies to do a raid?

The will have a lot of difficult questions to answer in the coming weeks. Why were they wearing only light-duty vests and only equipped with their service revolvers (as reported on the local news)?
Something went terribly wrong...obviously, since there are four cops dead. But this whole bust sounds like it was a gong show. I hope the police learn from their mistakes if indeed they didn't follow proper procedure.

[KowOfLang]

Originally posted by jam26+Mar 4 2005, 12:25 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (jam26 @ Mar 4 2005, 12:25 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-BlackArcher101@Mar 4 2005, 06:31 AM
Okay... in the midst of all this...

Did someone else find the way this went down really odd? It didn't seem like a bust at all, but also procedures weren't followed correctly.

I mean really, who sends in 4 rookies to do a raid?

The will have a lot of difficult questions to answer in the coming weeks. Why were they wearing only light-duty vests and only equipped with their service revolvers (as reported on the local news)?
Something went terribly wrong...obviously, since there are four cops dead. But this whole bust sounds like it was a gong show. I hope the police learn from their mistakes if indeed they didn't follow proper procedure. [/b][/quote]
Well I kind of question these rookies...I mean...

Not to undermine them. They died on duty, and that's very noble...

But did they question the whole situation, and the fact that they were being sent in lightly armed, and ALL of them being rookies?

Sounds like the RCMP's covering up some important details. If I were the 2nd of the crews dispatched after the first one didn't return or answer...and then I saw the car on the property abandoned...I wouldn't march right in there, that's for damn sure.

That said, the investigation should be interesting.

[Knut]

I wish for once someone would put the blame on the head of the guy that shot the officers, not the police department. No matter the facts around this incident the fact remains... someone shot four police officers in cold blood.

[RougeUnderoos]

I've tried to stay out of this but come on folks...

This is an unbelievable tragedy. No matter which side of any fence you sit on this is just a terrible, terrible thing. Nobody can argue that so maybe the other issues can be dealt with at a later date, or in another thread?

*I have no authority, no right, no nothing to say this, but it just seems to me that some of this stuff maybe can be debated elsewhere

[BlackArcher101]

Agreed Hesla and Rouge, but no matter what, the why and how questions must be asked. It is a shame this happened.

Right now, it looks like 2 officers were there overnight doing a stakeout. 2 more arrived in the morning and all 4 of them decided to enter the property as a group. Sometime overnight the shooter came back and they didn't know. The shooter surprised them since they thought he wasn't there, and the result we know.

It also sounds like this was about stolen property, not drugs. Too many questions with unknown answers.

I guess right now the time should be focused on the deaths at hand, and to let them all rest in peace. The questions can be answered after the funerals. It's not like anything is going to happen before then.

[calculoso]

For those who think that legalizing it is the answer, who would be monitoring all the grow-ops? Do you think that the current "bad guys" would stop growing it?

Instead of cops going in, we'll have (presumably un-armed) inspectors going in. Can we guarantee their safety or will we have more stories like this?

[Ro]

Originally posted by Hesla@Mar 4 2005, 12:19 AM
That is the worst thing i have ever read on an internet message board.

Obviously cops dont just go around shooting bad guys at will, usually they shoot them when being shot at. The shooting usually begins with the other party. Besides, i think that the only way 4 cops could be killed by one man is with a high powered rifle from a distance......that is cowardice to the extreme.

The more bad guys killed the better. If there were no cops where would we be... ANARCHY!! is that what you want. Every one just going around doing whatever the hell they want to whoever the hell they want. Sure, maybe you ran into one or two power hungry policemen, but it is not like they shot at you. You make me sick with that statement. It makes me sick that people can hold Cops with such low regard.

And dont give me any garbage about it is their living because our society has pushed them down to have no option.... THAT IS BULLSH*T. THere is always an option. Drug dealers take the easy way out.... it is not a way of life... it is a crime.

Policemen put their life on the line for a job that does not pay enough.

Rest in Peace Officers.

I apologize for the rant... but this issue hits me in multiple ways. One, a good friend of mine is an RCMP officer in that area, and i have not heard anything about his fate and Two: I am an occasional pot smoker and cant help feeling as thouhg i have contributed to this. I am going to quit using Marijuana all together.

Great post, until the end part I bolded.

[shoestring]

Sad sad day for Canada ,but especially the RCMP and the families.
I will shed tears and send hope to loved ones everytime I see anything about this tragedy.Tough to watch.

But let's not blame potsmokers for this.They want it legalized to eliminate a chance of this kind of thing from happening.

As the stories roll in this guy was a cop hating loner,that's from townfolk.
His Grampa implied that he was a lost soul with a uncaring mom. I wonder if his gun was registered? This guy was itching for a fight and didn't understand some basic rules of society,like ,.... fill in the volumes .

No blame to cops here,at all, in fact as I get older and was lucky enough to have lived with the ex-Chief of Detectives of Calgary I have grown to appreciate the amazing amount of dedication and devotion to a thankless job. I love cops!

But my very best friends,cousin's ,buddy ,once met up with a guy that was related in a wierd sort of way to a guy that once actually smoked that devilish stuff;
and he told me that a nickel bag in those old days was about equal to what you get today!
After I expessed my amazement!!!! , I researched this phenonemal activity in a consumer good and he was wrong,...but.
After about 1976, the price remained constant untill it started to fall in the last few years. No inflation,no price increases.
Now a decline.
I really need the supply and demand folks to configure the actual numbers but it seems that supply has overtaken demand. Yet ....more grow ops than ever are being shut down. More demand than we need,...I guess?
Maybe the plant has insinuated itself amongst the protilertariat.
We should rethink this ,it looks like a waste of money to me,could be a huge revenue source.
Or at least not a sinkhole that we can now attribute deaths to.

[Bend it like Bourgeois]

I'll be interested to hear how 1 guy managed to kill 4 cops - presumably armed , trained, and wearing body armour.

A string of unforseeable events? Bad luck? Or did the RCMP mess up somehow.

Friggin tragic. The gang shootings last week barely raised my radar in terms of my own feelings of personal safety. Somehow this does.

[Looger]

from the linked article:

Public Safety Minister Anne McLellan held a news conference to say she will consider tougher penalties for grow operations in the proposed marijuana decriminalization bill.

we all know what this means - nothing.

grow-ops are typically staffed by low-level mules that don't even know who put the money up for the operations.

point of fact, out here in bc you hear all kinds of crazy stuff, like the government itself being involved at some levels.

one thing for sure - they don't do all they can, i believe because it is an integral part of the economy. #2 industry here.

grow-ops are a low priority. period.

[transplant99]

I'll be interested to hear how 1 guy managed to kill 4 cops - presumably armed , trained, and wearing body armour.

Sounds like it went something like this...

They tried to arrest the guy away from the farm, but he got away.

2 Mounties were dispatched to watch the farm in case he returned there while others were searching for him. He came back to the farm and either had a SEMI-AUTOMATIC rifle with him or picked it up when he got back. He then shot the first two cops while they sat in their car.

Then he hunkered down in his bar/quonset and waited until the last 2 showed up....and once they did, they never had a chance.

Pure lunatic who was going to go out in a blaze of bullets, like so many before him.

Apparently he had tried to hire a local teenager to break into a house and kill a cop as well...even going as far as to take the kid on a dry run of the scenario.

Sad stuff.

[FlamesAddiction]

I think the guy was also likely tipped off that cops were going to be at his place.

[FlamesAddiction]

nm

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally posted by Looger@Mar 4 2005, 03:02 PM
grow-ops are typically staffed by low-level mules that don't even know who put the money up for the operations.

point of fact, out here in bc you hear all kinds of crazy stuff, like the government itself being involved at some levels.

one thing for sure - they don't do all they can, i believe because it is an integral part of the economy.# #2 industry here.

grow-ops are a low priority.# period.

That's true. A friend of mine was offered a chance to take care of a grow op. He turned it down because of the risk. I don't think this guy in Mayerthorpe is "typical" in anything. He sounds more like a redneck than someone running a massive organized crime ring.

I had a grow-up next door to me in BC and the people in the neighbourhood actually didn't mind. It seems that there is a belief among many that neighbourhoods with a grow-op are actually safer from crime. The reason I heard is that people who steal stuff and break into houses/cars are less likely to do it if they know there is a grow-up around because they know there are people watchin and they wouldn't want to rip anyone off who is affiliated with the grow-op.

I can't say if that is true since it would be hard to find numbers, but I know a lot of people that seem to believe it, and it's one of the reasons people don't rat them out.