Calgary Herald reporter and 4 soldiers killed by IED in Afghanistan

[Russic]

Originally Posted by Agamemnon

Yep. See "The Vietnam War" for results.

Sad situation, strange when something like that hits so close to home.

Oh good. I thought I misunderstood him for a minute there. What exactly would the point being of trying to rebuild schools and further the status of women if we're just going to bomb the civilians anyway? Seems like a lot of wasted effort to improve a society that we would just kill down the road.

I should feel ill at the thought of the suggestion. Unfortunately I'm not even the least bit surprised anymore.

Perhaps I'm merely a pessimist, but the outlook on this whole mission just seems grim. One year till we pull out and things don't seem like they are where they need to be to function. If in 5 years everything goes back to the way it was all these people will have died for nothing.

[Bagor]

Originally Posted by PyramidsofMars

Amazing. I cannot believe that such a brilliant military strategist as yourself isn't working to protect our troops and get as close to winning this war as is possible and is just wasting his time on the internet. Thank you for your deep insight, sir.

you needed further confirmation?

It was a simple question ....... SIR!

Instead of being a condescending prick ... present the alternative to the suggestion.

Or .... are you yourself such a "brilliant military strategist" that you've got a "brillant alternative", Let's hear it.

[Bagor]

Originally Posted by PyramidsofMars

.

Double post?

[Bagor]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

This is a different war though. The most effective strategy is to pinpoint and kill the leadership of the Taliban forcing them to put less experienced commanders into roles that they're not ready for while increasing the pressure through the use of heavy armor and infantry, unfortunately if you're going to do that then you have to brace yourself for casualties far more numerous then what we've seen to this point.

Maybe you should go to the Fletcher memorial home.

And hug Maggie whilst you're there ...

[PyramidsofMars]

Originally Posted by Bagor

It was a simple question ....... SIR!

Instead of being a condescending prick ... present the alternative to the suggestion.

Or .... are you yourself such a "brilliant military strategist" that you've got a "brillant alternative", Let's hear it.

his 'suggestion' contradicted every basic tenet of sociology and politics in warfare (not to mention basic military strategy- that you may not actually even injure your target due to how integrated they are into the civilian population), and would likely result in calls for and perhaps, god forbid, an actual far from desired attack on Canadian soil.

As for providing an 'alternate solution', I'm fairly certain there are more qualified individuals out there than myself working on these tough questions, which is why I don't 'suggest' killing as many random Afghans as possible as a legitimate option, and then call our military 'stupid' for not doing so.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Bagor

Maybe you should go to the Fletcher memorial home.

And hug Maggie whilst you're there ...

Not sure if I know what you're getting at here.

[Mightyfire89]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Not sure if I know what you're getting at here.

It's a reference to a song called "The Fletcher Memorial home" on Pink Floyd's album "The Final Cut".

Instead of explaining, I'll just let you read about it here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Final_Cut_(album)

[DionPlett]

This one hits home pretty hard for me, my condolences go out to those families.

There has got to be a better solution to this Afghan problem, get as many troops in there as needed and get rid of these characters once and for all or something because to many of our good Canadian brothers and sisters are dying over there, enough is enough.

[T@T]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

So you propose to murder thousands of innocent civilians then because it is the easier path? Following that idiotic suggestion would completely destroy everything that our people have done over there. You might as well just go spit on the grave of one of our fallen soldiers, given that that is effectively what you are trying to do, and it will cost less lives that way.

Murder? Is this a war or a popularity contest? If it's not a war...leave. If it is a war...win! Nothing has changed in 8 years, "idiotic" is still our people are getting blown up by a bunch a religious ######s when they should be nothing but dust in the wind by now.

How far would we have gotten in WWII if we didn't bomb the hell out of Germany and just went after the soldiers? How would it have turned out if we didn't end the war with 2 nukes on Japan? Believe it or not sir but that ending of the war turned 2 countrys (Germany and Japan) into very solid countrys that now believe in freedom. We owe our own freedoms to the acts that you call "murder" to the decisions of our leaders to win at all costs.

The fallen soldiers would spit in our faces if we don't try to win.

Of course you try to minimize damage to civilians, hell,drop pamphlets and give them notice to get out of the area, set up camps for them if you have too but make sure those ######s don't even have a water pistol to fight with when your done.

Everyday the drones get video/photos of the Iranians dropping off weapons on both Iraq and Afgan borders yet we do nothing...those arseholes need a little humble pie as well.

Originally Posted by PyramidsofMars

Amazing. I cannot believe that such a brilliant military strategist as yourself isn't working to protect our troops and get as close to winning this war as is possible and is just wasting his time on the internet. Thank you for your deep insight, sir.

Ok smart guy, Nice driveby. How about you give us your insite on how to end this war...nitwit!

[Shazam]

I've always thought it was the Marshall Plan that made Germany into what it is today.

Having said that I wouldn't mind it if Afghanistan was carpet bombed into oblivion.

[T@T]

Originally Posted by Shazam

I've always thought it was the Marshall Plan that made Germany into what it is today.

Having said that I wouldn't mind it if Afghanistan was carpet bombed into oblivion.

As much as the Marshall Plan helped rebuild Germany and Western Europe and helped repel communism it showed the people that free people are good people when not at war.

Get rid of the freaks in the Middle east and then rebuild that region with another version of the Marshall Plan the world would be a safer place.

[PyramidsofMars]

Originally Posted by T@T

Ok smart guy, Nice driveby. How about you give us your insite on how to end this war...nitwit!

and I repeat:

As for providing an 'alternate solution', I'm fairly certain there are more qualified individuals out there than myself working on these tough questions, which is why I don't 'suggest' killing as many random Afghans as possible as a legitimate option, and then call our military 'stupid' for not doing so.

[T@T]

Originally Posted by PyramidsofMars

and I repeat:

That was too late for me to notice!

You need to be quicker, as in the same post you slam me...nitwit

[valo403]

Originally Posted by T@T

Murder? Is this a war or a popularity contest? If it's not a war...leave. If it is a war...win! Nothing has changed in 8 years, "idiotic" is still our people are getting blown up by a bunch a religious ######s when they should be nothing but dust in the wind by now.

How far would we have gotten in WWII if we didn't bomb the hell out of Germany and just went after the soldiers? How would it have turned out if we didn't end the war with 2 nukes on Japan? Believe it or not sir but that ending of the war turned 2 countrys (Germany and Japan) into very solid countrys that now believe in freedom. We owe our own freedoms to the acts that you call "murder" to the decisions of our leaders to win at all costs.

The fallen soldiers would spit in our faces if we don't try to win.

Of course you try to minimize damage to civilians, hell,drop pamphlets and give them notice to get out of the area, set up camps for them if you have too but make sure those ######s don't even have a water pistol to fight with when your done.

Everyday the drones get video/photos of the Iranians dropping off weapons on both Iraq and Afgan borders yet we do nothing...those arseholes need a little humble pie as well.


Ok smart guy, Nice driveby. How about you give us your insite on how to end this war...nitwit!

A. Comparison to WWII is foolish, this isn't even close to a similar war. There are next to no areas in which overlap exists.

B. I knew you were kind of out to lunch, but the whole pamphlet thing really confirmed it. You propose to drop pamphlets telling civilians to leave because a bombing run is coming, but apparently don't grasp the myriad of issues involved in the state of the Afghan civilian population. For one, they aren't free to just head off to safety, they are effectively being used as human shields. Secondly, such notice would simply warn the actual resistance and allow them to head for further entrenched positions.

A massive indiscriminate aerial attack is an idiotic plan.

[Hack&Lube]

The Marshall Plan paved the way for democracy and western trust and cooperation and the development of Germany and Western Europe.

SCAP under MacArthur had the same effect in Japan.

The theory then was that economic development and eventual independence built democracies and thwarted the temptations of communism.

These things have nothing to do with how much those countries were bombed or how many civilians were killed. It's the same basic premise here that economic development will thwart extremism in these countries but it is much more difficult given the cultural differences here. Germany and Japan were much more agreeable to and already a part of the western world before WWII.

Indiscriminate bombings (but with warning leaflets!) is ridiculous and does nothing but cause more destruction (when development is the desired outcome) and hatred toward the West.

Afghanistan and Iraq are a no-win situation in the short term. To stay there only incites more hatred. To pull-out leaves those countries at the mercy of religious extremists, drug-lords, warlords, etc. I think the only solution is a slow pull-out while building up the local government and independence so they can fend for themselves and for the Western powers to find some kind of Arab proxy they can trust to deal with to aid in development but the problem is that Arab states don't even trust each other. Everybody is at each other's throats in that region.