Crate Training Puppies

[redforever]

Originally Posted by FFR

I find that very interesting becuase everything else I have heard or read says that we need to get up in the night to let the puppy to go out to use the bathroom because they aren't able to hold it that long. Because believe me, I'd love to get a full night of sleep. I'm just surprised because everyone else has said something different.

Now that we have gotten up for her to go to the bathroom the past few nights we'll probably have to taper it down to only getting up once and then not at all...

Once for a very young puppy should be fine, you certainly don't want her to get used to the idea that it is ok to mess in her house. But second time should not be necessary.

You aren't letting her have water when you take her out the first time, are you?

And she won't have as much urgency the first time either, if the water is taken away an hour or two before you retire.

[FFR]

Originally Posted by redforever

Once for a very young puppy should be fine, you certainly don't want her to get used to the idea that it is ok to mess in her house. But second time should not be necessary.

You aren't letting her have water when you take her out the first time, are you?

And she won't have as much urgency the first time either, if the water is taken away an hour or two before you retire.

No, food and water are taken up at least 2 hours before bedtime. Tonight maybe we'll try putting her in a different room so her whining doesn't get us up in the night and then we'll just get up the one time.

Is there a general age when dogs are able to hold it for the entire night?

[Old Yeller]

It depends on the breed (more specifically on the size of the breed).

We have a Leonberger (big) and he was able to hold it for 8-9 hours right from 8 weeks old. I initially got up with him in the middle of the night but the vet said for his size he could hold it and sure enough he could.

I was a very proud/relieved papa the first time he went all night.

[FFR]

She's a pretty small dog. Havanese X Bichon Shih Tzu. Pretty tiny for a puppy too actually so she probably can't hold it as long. Last night she went 5 hours after she fell asleep so I guess that's a step forward!

[Old Yeller]

All progress is good progress.

Just for comparison, our dog was 22 pounds at 8 weeks.

He may eat me out of house and home, but at least he likes his sleep.

[Iowa_Flames_Fan]

Originally Posted by FFR

She's a pretty small dog. Havanese X Bichon Shih Tzu. Pretty tiny for a puppy too actually so she probably can't hold it as long. Last night she went 5 hours after she fell asleep so I guess that's a step forward!

Small dogs are harder to house train because they can't hold it as long, as you surmised. Fair warning.

A friend of mine has two yorkies that are basically only "sort of" house trained now--at 3 years old. In their case I suspect it's another kind of deficiency, though. Those are not smart dogs.

[SaprykinPWNSjoo]

My dog is just over 4 months now but when we first got him at 8 weeks he only had 2 accidents in his kennel when we left him in there over night from about 10 30 to 6am. I don't think it has to do with the size of the dog but just training him my dog is tiny. he is a pom x with yorkie and he is only 4 pounds now so probably around 2 pounds then

[BuzzardsWife]

Originally Posted by Iowa_Flames_Fan

I'll cut you some slack as you're clearly not a dog owner. But dogs like kennels. After she was crate trained, I took the door off my second dog's kennel. She still spends around 12 hours a day in there--of her own volition. They like the feeling of a "den."

In fact, my dogs often sleep in the kennel together--or compete for the space if they're feeling less cuddly. A kennel can be a happy place for a dog--if you let them have the run of the house, they become destructive--because they're stressed out. Our world is a bewildering place for them. The kennel is one place where they feel safe and in control.

I am a previous dog owner. I had 2 dogs but did not work and lived on an acreage, i guess that's why i cant fathom having a dog and leaving them locked up for 8 hours a day, it just seems selfish to me. That is my opinion, it obviously won't change, but everyone has their own opinions on everything from dog treatment to child rearing.

[FFR]

Well back on the topic of crate training.
Nights are going well...but as for the day. We always have her crate door open when she is playing and when we put her in the kennel she gets a special treat that she only gets when we leave but she whines like crazy! Today i put her in the kennel before I left and moved out of the room so she didn't know I was there and it was 10-15 minutes before she quieted down. Is this something she will outgrow or leave behind when she gets used to us leaving? Or did we train her improperly in her crate? I mean, once she quiets down she plays with her toy or goes to sleep, but she is very noisy to begin with. She's still very young...so maybe it's just something that requires more training...

[Old Yeller]

Edit: Sorry FFR, I shouldn't poke fun at the crazy lady when you're asking legit questions.

I'll stop.

[Iowa_Flames_Fan]

Originally Posted by BuzzardsWife

everyone has their own opinions on everything from dog treatment to child rearing.

Absolutely--but I hope we agree (as parents and as dog owners) that there is a huge difference between the two. One mistake people make is thinking of their dogs like they are children. Dogs aren't children. They have completely different needs. Children need attention, affection, support, love, constant stimulation, etc. Dogs need exercise, discipline and structure above all--and love finishes in fourth place behind those.

If you only give your dog affection, ply them with treats constantly, let them have the run of the house whenever they want, give them an acreage that's all theirs to play with all the time, you're sending them a specific message--and it isn't "I love you, here's all this stuff." It's "you're stronger than me, why don't you take over around here." That's the kind of thing that makes dogs hard to train. In big dogs, it can make them dangerous.

[BuzzardsWife]

Originally Posted by Iowa_Flames_Fan

Absolutely--but I hope we agree (as parents and as dog owners) that there is a huge difference between the two. One mistake people make is thinking of their dogs like they are children. Dogs aren't children. They have completely different needs. Children need attention, affection, support, love, constant stimulation, etc. Dogs need exercise, discipline and structure above all--and love finishes in fourth place behind those.

If you only give your dog affection, ply them with treats constantly, let them have the run of the house whenever they want, give them an acreage that's all theirs to play with all the time, you're sending them a specific message--and it isn't "I love you, here's all this stuff." It's "you're stronger than me, why don't you take over around here." That's the kind of thing that makes dogs hard to train. In big dogs, it can make them dangerous.

a few months ago there was a thread about people that think dogs are as valued as human children..like my brother who compared his dogs illness to how i would feel if my daughter died from that..pretty offensive!

[Iowa_Flames_Fan]

Originally Posted by BuzzardsWife

a few months ago there was a thread about people that think dogs are as valued as human children..like my brother who compared his dogs illness to how i would feel if my daughter died from that..pretty offensive!

Well--as a parent and dog owner, I have to say that is pretty offensive. I'd be pretty sad if my dog died of an illness. If my daughter died, my life would be over.

[OilKiller]

OK, so we just got a new puppy. We already have a 5 year old dog and he was super easy to train. No crate or kennel or whatever you want to call it. He messed once in the house and we said "No!", put him outside and that was that. Easiest house training ever.

But, we got really lucky I think with that one, so the wife and I bought a wire kennel and set it up for the new puppy. I'm home right now, but I don't want the puppy wandering around while I'm working in my home office, so I am putting her in there as if my wife and I were gone all day at work. This may be the case very soon.

I put a puppy pad in there though and the kennel is big enough to support a bed, a water dish and the puppy pad. She has gone on the puppy pad a couple of times already and the one time I tried taking it out, she went on the floor where it was.

I see many say that the crate/kennel should only be big enough for a bed and for the dog to stand up and turn around, and this is obviously not the case for us. I'm not sure what to do here. I take the water away a couple of hours before bedtime, but I don't want to leave her in the kennel when I go out or all day long if my wife and I are out at work, without any water or a puppy pad. I could take the pad away now, but then won't she get confused when it's there and when it's not there?

I have been taking her outside every hour or so and getting her to go out there and reinforcing that with either a treat or verbal acknowledgment.

I'm just not sure if we are going about this the right way. I really don't know how a puppy could go all day long in the kennel without a puppy pad. When we are both working, we will be gone around 7 to 8 hours. If I make the kennel smaller, then I won't be able to fit the pad in there and keep it away from the bed.

The puppy by the way was born on April 10th. She is a Black Lab/Golden Retriever cross. Freakin' beautiful dog and I want to make sure we are doing this right.

Thoughts? Suggestions? Hints?

Thanks!

[redforever]

Well, I am not a big fan of wire crates for one thing.

Now that the dog has messed in there, you are gonna have to completely get rid of that urine odor. Wash down the floor, the keennel and the kennel pad with some disinfectant and deodorizer. Put the kennel somewhere else and then put a big box or something in the back half of it so they only have half of the kennel at their disposal and start over.

I don't know. We only used the kennels for night training. Once that was accomplished we gave our dogs the run of the house and the yard. But they choose to sleep in their kennels with the door open and that is where they run for shelter if scared. It is their den, they crash in it and feel comfy and cozy.

[OilKiller]

Originally Posted by redforever

Well, I am not a big fan of wire crates for one thing.

Why?

Originally Posted by redforever

I don't know. We only used the kennels for night training.

So they had the run of the house during the day?

[redforever]

I said "Well, I am not a big fan of wire crates for one thing."


And you asked "Why?

Well, I think the wire crates are just too open and I think that instead of calming a dog down, they quite often do the opposite with a young puppy. The puppy can still see you and all activity around it, there is nothing closed in and comfy feeling about it as far as I can tell. On the other hand, something like a Vari-Kennel is more closed in, still has breathing grates etc of course, but it is just more like their little domain. And I think they are warmer, darker, the dog just settles down better.

And yes, my dogs can have the run of the house or the run of the yard, and I live in the country and they never leave my yard either. They know to stay home and they know not to do their business in the house.

Now once a dog is house trained, why would you want to kennel him or her all day long? If you are not sure about giving your dog the whole house, then give them the kitchen, the laundry room, the garage, whatever, but really, if your dog is beyond the messing stage, why kennel it all day long? We used the kennel specifically for potty training, to help the dog to hold the contents of its bladder and to teach them where it is appropriate or not appropriate to do their business. Other than putting my one dog in when it is storming, our dogs are never kennelled. Well, if one would travel far distances with them in a vehicle, that would be another instance I guess. When Duncan goes bird hunting, he is kennelled until they reach the hunting destination.

[OilKiller]

Originally Posted by redforever

Now once a dog is house trained, why would you want to kennel him or her all day long?

You stated that you only created your dogs at night. So I asked if they were allowed to run around during the day. I don't see the point in doing it at night while training them, if you don't do it during the day. Wont they just mess during the day as well?

I have all kinds of electronics, etc. so I don't want the new dog chewing things while we are gone, not to mention we have quite steep stairs going to the basement and I don't want her falling down them or even going down there right now.

Once she has been completely house broken, she'll come out of the kennel and hopefully we can work with her more about the other stuff. We do this now while we are home. She can run around and play and is being trained not to get into what she's not allowed to get into.

[FFR]

So crate training is going decently well actually. She only whines in her crate if she knows that we are home. If we put her in there and then are completely silent after leaving the room, then she is silent and happy.

One questions...more about house training, but there seem to be a lot of knowledgable people here...
Last week, house training was going great. She was going to the door to be let out and had maybe 2 accidents in the house. This week, everything has been forgotten. She's peeing inside (though that seems to have gotten better) and pooping only inside. For example, this morning I take her out on leash to the bathroom spot. She goes pee. We wait to see if she will poop and she doesn't so we play a bit and then go inside. First thing she does inside as I'm putting away her leash is poop on the floor. Honestly within seconds. I think she thinks she is supposed to poop inside.

Any suggestions? Is it normal for puppies to forget everything they learned?

[Traditional_Ale]

Originally Posted by OilKiller

She is a Black Lab/Golden Retriever cross. Freakin' beautiful dog and I want to make sure we are doing this right.

How large was the litter, and are there any left? Thats sounds like an incredible mix!