Baseball transaction

[Flickered Flame]

Originally posted by snowdude@Dec 18 2004, 03:13 AM
Therefore Jays do suck...but less then the A's

I'd like to know how you figure the A's suck. Lets compare records from the past 6 seasons:

Toronto: 478 wins, 493 losses, .494 winning%
Oakland: 570 wins, 401 losses, .587 winning%

Not to mention that this past year was the first year in 5 that the A's did not make the playoffs despite having a payroll half as much as the Angels, who only won the division by 1 game. The Angels spend not as much as the Yankees or the Red Sox but compared to Oakland its not even close.

Oakland 59,825,167
Angels 101,909,667

[snowdude]

the records are good, but consider this, the Jays play more games against the Red Sox and Yankes then the A's do. So i would expect their record is much worse...though considering who/where they play the Jay's have a pretty good record for the past 6 years against teams that have won a lot more then any team (save maybe Seattle) on a regular basis than in the AL West

[Flickered Flame]

Here are the records of Boston, NY, Seattle and Anaheim the past 6 years.

Boston: 547-424=.563
NY: 584-383=.603
Seattle: 535-437=.550--that includes this past year when they lost 99 games.
Anaheim: 495-477=.509

Clearly the Angels are the lowest of the teams but 2 years ago they won the world series and last year they were very good.

By those winning percentages, Oakland clearly competes with the yankees and the Red Sox, and are better then the Sox the past 6 years, in the regular season.

[JiriHrdina]

Originally posted by Jiggy_12+Dec 17 2004, 09:27 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Jiggy_12 @ Dec 17 2004, 09:27 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

Damn, i was sure Clement was going to go to TO and improve their rotation.....Alou???? Good god i hope not...he was done as a quality player after he left the Expos looks...Anyhow its shaping up to be another great year of being a blue jays fan

I dunno if you saw Alou's numbers last year or not, but he had a great season, one of his best if not THE best. He is 38, and I would much rather sign a guy like Durazo. But Alou seems to be showing no signs of slowing down. [/b][/quote]
Alou's bat would help but outfield seems to be the one spot where we don't need help. Wells, Johnson and Rios make a pretty solid trio out there - I'd rather they spend money elsewhere rather bring in a fourth outfielder.

[flames_1987]

Jays are gonna be just fine. They've got a young team and JP will really have the money now to improve them even more this offseason. Batista back in the rotation now, and I really like that young kid Bush.

They Jays do not suck, to me I can see them being a fun team and exciting to watch. No more Carlos, as for the A's well, yes over the last say 5-6 years the A's have been better. However they have nothing to show for it, and it's quite obvious Billy Beane is a good gm if you want a playoff team, but not a world series.

BTW..Robby Alomar 92..How Sweet it is...that was good day to be watching the Athletics wasen't it?

[Flickered Flame]

Originally posted by flames_1987@Dec 18 2004, 05:41 AM
BTW..Robby Alomar 92..How Sweet it is...that was good day to be watching the Athletics wasen't it?

Ummm...can you please tell me how many winning season the Jays have had since then? I would say only Terry Ryan GM of the Twins does a better job then Beane with the resources that they are given. Good luck to the Jays even having a .500 record this coming season.

[flambers]

I agree, so far I am dissappointed with JP. He signed Koskie but has done nothing else. Jays are going to be bad this year. In my view they will perform about the same as last year. Jays management needs to step up and do something already.

[snowdude]

Originally posted by Flickered Flame+Dec 18 2004, 12:25 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Flickered Flame @ Dec 18 2004, 12:25 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-flames_1987@Dec 18 2004, 05:41 AM
BTW..Robby Alomar 92..How Sweet it is...that was good day to be watching the Athletics wasen't it?

Ummm...can you please tell me how many winning season the Jays have had since then? [/b][/quote]
At least one since they won the world series again in 1993 :P

[flames_1987]

Originally posted by Flickered Flame+Dec 18 2004, 06:25 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Flickered Flame @ Dec 18 2004, 06:25 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-flames_1987@Dec 18 2004, 05:41 AM
BTW..Robby Alomar 92..How Sweet it is...that was good day to be watching the Athletics wasen't it?

Ummm...can you please tell me how many winning season the Jays have had since then? I would say only Terry Ryan GM of the Twins does a better job then Beane with the resources that they are given. Good luck to the Jays even having a .500 record this coming season. [/b][/quote]
Billy Beane only can put together good regular season teams. His whole moneyball stance means he brings in little or no help when it comes to leadership. The A's clubhouse has been the laugh of the league for the last 6 years.

[Flickered Flame]

Ok as an A's fan I am sick. Peter Gammons is reporting that the A's have traded ace Mark Mulder to the Cards in exchange for Danny Haren, Kikeo Calero, and young catcher Daric Barton.

I will stop bugging you Jay fans about your team sucking because clearly the A's will not compete this year in the AL West.

First Giambi, then Tejada, Thursday it was Hudson, today its Mulder. When will it end for small market teams in baseball?.

[flames_1987]

Originally posted by Flickered Flame@Dec 19 2004, 12:25 AM
Ok as an A's fan I am sick. Peter Gammons is reporting that the A's have traded ace Mark Mulder to the Cards in exchange for Danny Haren, Kikeo Calero, and young catcher Daric Barton.

I will stop bugging you Jay fans about your team sucking because clearly the A's will not compete this year in the AL West.

First Giambi, then Tejada, Thursday it was Hudson, today its Mulder. When will it end for small market teams in baseball?.

I hear ya buddy. Tough tough tough..

The players are right a luxury tax will work!

[moon]

Cards get just what they need in Mulder and don't have top give much up.

The NL Central is going to be tough again this season, especially if Beltran re-signs with the Astros.

[RedHot25]

Man, poor Oakland...what the heck is up? I thought that they only had to trade 1 of the big 3...? And now they have traded 2...? And the one they haven't traded, Zito, I thought would be first on the block!

Anyways...

from: http://tsn.ca/mlb/news_story.asp?ID=108498&hubName=mlb and
http://tsn.ca/mlb/news_story.asp?ID=108294&hubName=

Out: Tim Hudson, Mulder, Rhodes, Redman


In: OF Charles Thomas, pitcher Juan Cruz, pitcher Dan Meyer, pitcher Danny Haren, pitcher Kiko Calero, catching prospect Daric Barton, Kendall



Good or bad hall for what they traded...?

[Resolute 14]

A lot of "futures" in those deals. The A's are starting over, methinks.

[RedHot25]

Originally posted by Snakeeye@Dec 20 2004, 07:10 PM
A lot of "futures" in those deals. The A's are starting over, methinks.

Agreed.

But you never know with Oakland - Beane specifically. He could pull something out of his hat and end up with another 90-win season. But me thinks that that is going to be pretty tough to do....

[Resolute 14]

Hitting is much easier to replace than pitching, even if it is Tejada and Giambi that you are replacing. There is very little chance Beane can overcome the loss of Mulder and Hudson so quickly.

[Flickered Flame]

I still think the A's will win between 80-90 games. Beane has lost 2 big starters but he has really upgraded the pen, which was a big achilles for the A's last year, and with Zito good for at least 10 wins, and could win 15, Rich Harden is the future ace of the staff and he is good for close to 15 wins. Haren and Meyers are fire ballers who could excel in Oakland. The A's always stock up on good young arms and despite being devasted of losing Huddy and Mulder, its all part of the process in Oakland, and it would not surprise me to see Beane pull a few more tricks out of his sleeve. He may need to bring in another bat, possibly at first base.

[JiriHrdina]

I'm not enough of a baseball expert to be able to evaluate the prospects the A's got but from what I've read, most pundents seem to agree that Billy Beane did very well in both of the deals. A's may take a step back this year but it will probably work out in the long run.

[Andrew]

the catching prospect they acquired is a big time hitter and big time prospect.... so it will be a while till we know how godo he did as he is only 19.

[JiriHrdina]

Only deal from today of significance is that Orlando Cabrera signed with the Angels who didn't offer David Eckstein a contract.