07-08 Raptors Season - Page 3 - Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

HitterD · 11-22-2007, 02:29 PM

Does anyone here remember Keon Clark?? Moon reminds me so much of the energy and exciting vertical game that Clark brought to the Raptors back when they had Vince.

Just googled Keon Clark... turns out he was arrested in October for Drug and Weapons charges.... wow.

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/basketball/...k.html?ref=rss

JohnnyFlame · 11-22-2007, 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaramonLS

Well, because AB is a 7 footer who doesn't quite play like one yet. It is going to take a few years for him to develop that inside presence as well as the defensive aspect of his game. I wish I would see him under the Basket getting rebounds and scoring, but right now he is content to stay outside and drop the long range 3, which he is very good at from the top of the key, but shouldn't fall in love with it like he does.

The Raptors don't have a lot of players who play defense well at all, which is why Moon and Delfino are out there so much. Aside from those 2, probably Anthony Parker is the best defender out there. Ford is a poor defender, so is Bargs and Bosh is mediocre at best as a defender (although improving from year to year).

Smitch should be running plays for AB to post him up or have him take a fellow bigman off the dribble. He can certainly go to the basket and he has a couple of decent low post moves.

octothorp · 11-25-2007, 12:18 PM

Moon's got 15 points, 8 rebounds, 5 blocks, 3 steals today against Chicago. Great performance.

edit: make that six blocks.

CaramonLS · 11-25-2007, 12:22 PM

Wow if he can put that effort in night in and night out, there is no doubt he should be starting for the Raps. What a game and an amazing effort. Smart shooting by him.

And that move, dude should be taking it to the basket more often with moves like that.

bluejays · 11-26-2007, 07:31 AM

Yup, Moon has been absolutely awesome. He's an absolute diamond in the rough - to be coming in and playing the way he has despite being a previous minor-leaguer, it really is amazing. Bosh has been playing well this year, though, the night before last was the first time he dominated a game singlehandedly (and held up with LJ). Kapono has been excellent so far too.

Bargnani has been terribly disappointing this year, with little enthusiasm and that 3 point shot in the same place as always. This guys has the tools to be aggressive on the offensive end, but fouls on both ends every minute and has no idea how to post up.

One player that has been really frustrating to me this whole year is TJ Ford though. In the games where Toronto has lost, it seems Ford has been getting the Alston syndrome and hogging the ball to go up against the other teams' PG's to show them up. There have been some nice opportunities he's forgone in passing the ball to an open teammate to go one-on-one against the opposing teams PG and takes some damn lousy shots. I wish Mitchell sat him every time he did this.

From watching nearly every game, I can see that one thing this team is missing is a pure Centre who can rebound and block. Moon has stepped up, but doesn't intimidate the opposing players down low in the key - he catches them by surprise. Someone who can run bang in the key would be nice to have to rough up opposing players.

JohnnyFlame · 11-26-2007, 08:09 AM

They beat the bad teams and lose to the good ones. Plus they are very much playing a short term game. AB is their hope long term at center yet Smitch has no patience with the guy. Dumb because a guy like Moon isn't taking the team anywhere. Yes I like the guy as well and they did need a guy who who show some hustle and rebound. Delfino has been a good addition as well but long term they need AB to fufill his potential if they want to actually win a championship.

You have to just feed the ball into a big guy and let him learn the NBA ropes. Geez look at the Lakers with Bynum. They just keep feeding the guy even though many, many times the guy would make some lame move or even lose the ball before he even got started. Meanwhile on defense he looked confused. But watch the guy now -- he ain't no Chamberlain but man a very doing a much better job for his team. Very solid center with decent defense and excellent rebounding. Not going to scare anybody offensively but ever improving in that regard.

I would stick AB in the post and work him inside till he gets it right. It will only help the outside shooters. IF you are wondering why TJ and Calderon have had to fire a lot of shots lately it's because other teams have figured out how to play the Raptors. They let Bosh have his touches, and try and take away the point guards passing options off his penetration. Or they take Bosh out of the equation on the high pick and roll. In other words they dare the two point guards to create their own shot.

Raps are almost forced to do the high pick and roll as Bosh's game is better suited to having a variety of outside shots along with an inside game. In fact he does a better job of taking his man to the basket using his quickness than he does of a straight big man post up game. Other teams have the wing set the screen which sets up the two man game with the point guard then on the wing and the big man sitting in the post. Allows for the dump in, post moves, give and go, or pass back out if the point guard's man jumps in for the double team. This should be a part of AB's game and the Raps offense. Would then feature both Bosh and AB close to the basket for rebounds and open up the perimeter for the shooters.

Last year they brought in a shooting coach and he did a great job with the team helping them improve in that area. This year they should bring in a guy to work with the big men and get their post up game in shape.

CaramonLS · 11-26-2007, 09:48 AM

I agree with most of what you said Johnny, but Moon isn't stealing AB's minutes. They usually run a 4 man PF/C rotation with Bargs/Bosh/Humphries/Baston or Nesterovich, but since Rasho is injured, and Mitchell hasn't wanted to play Baston, it has been a pretty strict 3 man rotation. Moon is getting SF/SG minutes, which is fine by me. The guy has never played against NBA level competition, and even though he is 27, you can't simply judge him as just an extra. This kid has potential and the game last night, with 6 blocks and severely limiting Deng's scoring shows he could be a long term solution. Is this even the 10th NBA game he has played yet?

However, they should feed AB down low in the post a lot more, that I completely agree with, and possibly just have him shooting 3s as the trailer in transition, not much more than that.

JohnnyFlame · 11-26-2007, 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaramonLS

I agree with most of what you said Johnny, but Moon isn't stealing AB's minutes. They usually run a 4 man PF/C rotation with Bargs/Bosh/Humphries/Baston or Nesterovich, but since Rasho is injured, and Mitchell hasn't wanted to play Baston, it has been a pretty strict 3 man rotation. Moon is getting SF/SG minutes, which is fine by me. The guy has never played against NBA level competition, and even though he is 27, you can't simply judge him as just an extra. This kid has potential and the game last night, with 6 blocks and severely limiting Deng's scoring shows he could be a long term solution. Is this even the 10th NBA game he has played yet?

However, they should feed AB down low in the post a lot more, that I completely agree with, and possibly just have him shooting 3s as the trailer in transition, not much more than that.

He isn't stealing his minutes position by position but with Smitch playing so much small ball then AB's minutes are indeed being taken by Moon etc. I like what Moon and Delfino are doing defensively and especially on the defensive boards but it isn' the answer. They need the lineup to beat good teams and they need matchups they can count on. The team hardly ever gets to the foul line other than Bosh. They are so incredibly dependant on the outside shot -- you know in the playoffs that will kill them like it did last year.

They need more of an inside game. In fact they should have Moon cutting to the basket and looking for offensive rebounds rather than having him as just yet another jump shot option.

OzSome · 11-26-2007, 03:42 PM

I am still puzzled with the Raptors this season. When they are playing well, they look unbeatable but when they are bad... they are just plain bad. Raptors I think is very inconsistent this season so far. Chris Bosh is not as dominating as he is because he tries too much outside shooting inside of going to basket. Bargnani looks unmotivated out there at times. Parker was not playing the way he was last season. Maybe because he is not playing as much as he used to. We definitely miss Garbajosa. I am sure they'll start being consistent sometime soon and makes the playoff. I am not a big fan of Derrick Martin. I know the announcer keeps saying something of his leadership but the guy is ball hog. I've seen him play a few times so far this season and last season and aqll the games I've seen he doesn't look for pass.

JohnnyFlame · 12-03-2007, 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OzSome

I am still puzzled with the Raptors this season. When they are playing well, they look unbeatable but when they are bad... they are just plain bad. Raptors I think is very inconsistent this season so far. Chris Bosh is not as dominating as he is because he tries too much outside shooting inside of going to basket. Bargnani looks unmotivated out there at times. Parker was not playing the way he was last season. Maybe because he is not playing as much as he used to. We definitely miss Garbajosa. I am sure they'll start being consistent sometime soon and makes the playoff. I am not a big fan of Derrick Martin. I know the announcer keeps saying something of his leadership but the guy is ball hog. I've seen him play a few times so far this season and last season and aqll the games I've seen he doesn't look for pass.

Bargnani is unfortunately at the moment the poster boy for the Raps. If his outside shots are falling he is valuable -- if not he needs to sit on the bench as his defense is brutal.

So far this season Delfino has been a very consistent performer, shooting, defense and rebounding. Moon is giving them the same. Kapono shooting and at least hustle if not good defense. Calderon with great game management, superior passing and at least hustle on defense. Bosh up and down but improving, Parker up and down but improving. I think Ford has been up and down as well and the Raps have to be pleased they have Calderon to come in when he is trying to do too much by himself. AB mostly mediocre and the rest of the cast adequate for their minutes.

Frankly if Graham and Dixon have been rendered irrelevant they should move them for another big man who can help defend. Bosh and Bargnani don't have the weight/strength to take on some of the guys they end up defending.

It was good to see them going inside to Moon last game as to me this is what they need to do to improve their offense.

bluejays · 12-03-2007, 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnnyFlame

Bargnani is unfortunately at the moment the poster boy for the Raps. If his outside shots are falling he is valuable -- if not he needs to sit on the bench as his defense is brutal.

So far this season Delfino has been a very consistent performer, shooting, defense and rebounding. Moon is giving them the same. Kapono shooting and at least hustle if not good defense. Calderon with great game management, superior passing and at least hustle on defense. Bosh up and down but improving, Parker up and down but improving. I think Ford has been up and down as well and the Raps have to be pleased they have Calderon to come in when he is trying to do too much by himself. AB mostly mediocre and the rest of the cast adequate for their minutes.

Frankly if Graham and Dixon have been rendered irrelevant they should move them for another big man who can help defend. Bosh and Bargnani don't have the weight/strength to take on some of the guys they end up defending.

It was good to see them going inside to Moon last game as to me this is what they need to do to improve their offense.

I don't have the salary cap numbers or anything, and this may be a way slanted idea in favor of Toronto, but when I think about it, Toronto is really missing an intimidating Centre. Considering Joey G's upside (which I see none of, but others do), Chicago's faltering lineup, and Ben Wallace's aging, do you think a deal of Joey G, Dixon and 2nd Rounder could fetch a guy like Wallace OR Tyrus Thomas? Just saying.

Edit: Or Dalembert

JohnnyFlame · 12-03-2007, 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fleury

I don't have the salary cap numbers or anything, and this may be a way slanted idea in favor of Toronto, but when I think about it, Toronto is really missing an intimidating Centre. Considering Joey G's upside (which I see none of, but others do), Chicago's faltering lineup, and Ben Wallace's aging, do you think a deal of Joey G, Dixon and 2nd Rounder could fetch a guy like Wallace OR Tyrus Thomas? Just saying.

Edit: Or Dalembert

I don't think they target an older guy like Wallace even if they had something Chicago wanted. They are one of the youngest teams in the NBA. I would hope they are looking for a young center who likes to bang and rebound. Obviously his offense will be limited(heck with Graham and Dixon as the bait he ain't going to be anything except a decent big man rotation player they can bring in for a few minutes a game and in situational needs(taking on a guy their current bigs can't handle).

Maritime Q-Scout · 12-03-2007, 08:48 PM

Not to hijack a thread, or attempt a poll high-jack, but on www.Raptors.com there's a poll to vote for Jamario Moon's new nicname. They took the top 4 suggestions and created a poll.

My cousin submitted "Apollo 33" and I'm trying to drum up support and get people to vote for it for him.

If you can take the 2 seconds, I'm not sure what he gets but I did make a nifty little facebook group: http://dal.facebook.com/group.php?gid=7728016820&ref=mf (I'm aware my Photoshop skill's aren't what HD's are but I'm trying)

Thanks guys and Go Raps!

trek2mountZion · 12-05-2007, 02:13 PM

Trade back Ford for Charlie V, we would do better without his careless plays.

He better improve and start looking up when dribbling towards the net, something Calderon has mastered.

moon · 12-05-2007, 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by trek2mountZion

Trade back Ford for Charlie V, we would do better without his careless plays.

He better improve and start looking up when dribbling towards the net, something Calderon has mastered.

How many PF's do the Raptors need? What is CV going to add to this team?

fredr123 · 12-05-2007, 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fleury

I don't have the salary cap numbers or anything, and this may be a way slanted idea in favor of Toronto, but when I think about it, Toronto is really missing an intimidating Centre. Considering Joey G's upside (which I see none of, but others do), Chicago's faltering lineup, and Ben Wallace's aging, do you think a deal of Joey G, Dixon and 2nd Rounder could fetch a guy like Wallace OR Tyrus Thomas? Just saying.

Edit: Or Dalembert

Try it and see in the Trade Machine: http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/trademachine

Probably wouldn't work for Wallace but it might fly for Thomas... if you can convince Chicago that it would be a good idea.

StrayBullet · 12-05-2007, 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fleury

I don't have the salary cap numbers or anything, and this may be a way slanted idea in favor of Toronto, but when I think about it, Toronto is really missing an intimidating Centre. Considering Joey G's upside (which I see none of, but others do), Chicago's faltering lineup, and Ben Wallace's aging, do you think a deal of Joey G, Dixon and 2nd Rounder could fetch a guy like Wallace OR Tyrus Thomas? Just saying.

Edit: Or Dalembert

Why would Colangelo throw away an athletic forward for an undersized, aging, $15 million dollar centre? They already have Bargnani.

Dalembert wouldn't be any better either - Overpaid and again... Undersized. There's nothing intimidating about Dalembert.

The core of the Raptors is solid. A young, franchise player, a two-headed monster at point guard; both with different skill sets, an excellent shooting guard going over 50% from the field, an athletic, 20 year-old big man who can drive, shoot, and score from the post and an effective supporting cast which plays great defense and can all score when needed. Their 10-8 record does not reflect how good this team actually is. IF I were to worry about something it would be that most of those 8 losses came from teams who are at the top of the Conference (ie: Orlando, Boston, Utah, and Dallas) If they want to be taken seriously, they gotta win their next three games - Not just hang in for a 1 point loss or win 2 out of 3, but beat them.

trek2mountZion · 12-06-2007, 12:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by moon

How many PF's do the Raptors need? What is CV going to add to this team?

REBOUNDING!!! SOMETHING THE RAPS BESIDES BOSH DONT LIKE TO DO.

JohnnyFlame · 12-06-2007, 08:31 AM

http://www.thestar.com/Sports/article/282647

Read this article and you can see BC is interested only in guys that can shoot.
Guards penetrate and dish out. His goal is to have a team exactly like the team that shredded the Raps last night. All offense, no defense, run and gun, everybody can shoot, fire 3's all night long.

trek2mountZion · 12-06-2007, 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnnyFlame

http://www.thestar.com/Sports/article/282647

Read this article and you can see BC is interested only in guys that can shoot.
Guards penetrate and dish out. His goal is to have a team exactly like the team that shredded the Raps last night. All offense, no defense, run and gun, everybody can shoot, fire 3's all night long.

What the hell is ford doing in our team then, he cant shoot if his life depended on it just check his shooting %.