open letter to Dave Bronconnier.....

[calculoso]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

I remember the whole patio law as being somewhat "17th Avenue" driven. As in a lot of pedestrians were bitching about having to walk past cigarette-smoky patios on 17th. Maybe elsewhere, I don't know, but I remember 17th being a focal point. I can understand that people don't like cigarette smoke, but isn't it a pretty minor (practically non-existent) thing compared to all the other pollution you are inhaling on that street?

Diesel buses, gravel trucks, belching SUVs, traffic jams, literally thousands of stinking cars driving past within spitting distance of a patio while you have a couple beers but it's the guy smoking a cigarette that is offensive?

I think 17th was a focal point (of the press, no doubt) because there are lots of patios there. The law doesn't only affect them though. Way out in the outskirts where I live, the law applies just the same, and patio goers don't have to deal with all that pollution.

[White Doors]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

Yeah that's a bit of an odd one. A few years back when I did such things I was on the patio at the Ship and I didn't know the rules and was told to go inside and smoke. There I was standing by the door inside, with all the other smokers and the staff. That made a lot of sense. Well I guess it made a lot of sense to the capri-pant/tan-chino crowd walking from their Navigator over to Rubaiyat. Those people hate pollution.

Yes, if they would just reverse that and allow smoking on the patio and not inside...

[White Doors]

Originally Posted by ken0042

What is so hard for people to grasp about the patio law?

When they were looking at the smoking laws; they looked at what other cities did. For example most of California has been smoke free since the 90's, so there was a lot of history in other cities. What had been banned there was smoking on streetside patios. The problem those cities faced was defining what a streetside patio was. How far from the street? Let's say 10 feet. You then have a guy who is 9.5 feet away asking for a variance, and then by-law inspectors need to take measurements, and it ends up costing the city all kinds of money in enforcement.

If you make the law simple; "No smoking on patios" then it is black and white, and easy to enforce.

Add to that the city knew eventually there would be no smoking anywhere within a few years, and it becomes a no brainer.

I find it funny; the city wastes money and it becomes an issue. This time the city found a way to save some money, and everybody jumps all over them.

And no smoking INSIDE is a hard thing to do? I'm sorry, it makes ZERO sense especially when you see people choking on the diesel fumes from the bus when it takes off.

[Bobblehead]

From the things I have read, once a ban comes into effect there is an initial dip, but after a while it recovers.

My old roommates from back in London Ont. tell me about how much nicer it was to not smell your clothes from the night before when you wake up with a hangover, or worry about leaving your winter coat in the car so it wouldn't stink for the next week.

[Shazam]

When California enacted their no-smoking law, business at some establishments actually went up. Families and pregnant women actually started going to restaurants again.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by Shazam

When California enacted their no-smoking law, business at some establishments actually went up. Families and pregnant women actually started going to restaurants again.

Yep. Non-smoking bars will still have business because the fact is smokers will still go to the bar. More non-smokers will start going again too. The main reason my parents don't go to the bar is because they hate the smoke.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by DementedReality

yup ... so?

i would rather suffer with either not going to places cuz they stink or going to them and stinking than to have the govt decide for me.

i just dont like the govt telling consenting adults what to do. if you dont consent to second hand smoke, dont go to the establishment. sure might suck for you (and I) but too bad. life aint always fair.

Huh? They also banned building with asbestos because it's harmful. It's cheap though, so builders should be able to use it, we just shouldn't go to those buildings if we don't like it? That's stupid. When it comes to the point that there are so few bars that don't allow smoking something has to be done about. Most of those bars are located in very inconvenient places too. So us non-smokers should have to suffer because a few drug addicts want to harm themselves and others?

[habernac]

The "smokers won't come to my establishment" arguement is bunk. If more than 75% of people are non-smokers, your business is not going to be hurting. There are still bars in California and Toronto, heck , even in Edmonton!

[mykalberta]

Originally Posted by nuckles

It's cause Calgary and Hellberta in general , are backwards , too da max!!

Redneck power!!

This comes from a nucks fan in a province that prays to Draft - Dodgers.

Thanks.

People who smoke and who die of cigartee smoke, deserve to die. Your life and death is a sum of your life's actions, you smoke, you die.

I smoke Cohibas, if I die because of it 2 years before I would have, so be it.

Should we ban alcohol cause some jacktards drink and drive - please.

I do sign up for booting Bronco back to Regina/Peg/TO/Victoria where he came from though.

MYK

[DementedReality]

Originally Posted by rubecube

Huh? They also banned building with asbestos because it's harmful. It's cheap though, so builders should be able to use it, we just shouldn't go to those buildings if we don't like it? That's stupid. When it comes to the point that there are so few bars that don't allow smoking something has to be done about. Most of those bars are located in very inconvenient places too. So us non-smokers should have to suffer because a few drug addicts want to harm themselves and others?

well thats a fair point, but i guess i see a difference between the two.

hey i am a non smoker and hate the smell of it, i just get irritated by a nanny goverment.

i also think you should be allowed to smoke pot, have 3 (consenting) wives (and a husband too if it floats your boat) and be able to own a gun (but also have stricter laws for missuse).

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by DementedReality

well thats a fair point, but i guess i see a difference between the two.

hey i am a non smoker and hate the smell of it, i just get irritated by a nanny goverment.

i also think you should be allowed to smoke pot, have 3 (consenting) wives (and a husband too if it floats your boat) and be able to own a gun (but also have stricter laws for missuse).

I think you should be able to smoke pot and own a gun too. I don't think you should be able to smoke pot or randomly shoot off a gun in public though.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by nuckles

It's cause Calgary and Hellberta in general , are backwards , too da max!!

Redneck power!!

Like breaking a guy's neck and not getting any jail time backwards?

[ken0042]

Originally Posted by White Doors

And no smoking INSIDE is a hard thing to do? I'm sorry, it makes ZERO sense especially when you see people choking on the diesel fumes from the bus when it takes off.

Here's my point again. Not every patio is alnong a bus route. So do we make the law so that smoking is OK on a patio if it is beside a bus route then? How far away? How many people do we employ to verify the distance from bus routes?

See what I mean? Every time you try and complicate things you add to the burocracy. And then it costs us money.

[Circa89]

This California complete ban of smoking is bunk. I was in San Diego in January and every single bar on the "Strip" had a patio. On that 2 foot patio were numerous people *gasp* smoking! So this complete smoking ban in Cali is BS. I can see Calgary City Counsel ban smoking in 2008 restaurants and night clubs or sooner but they have to re-open the patios to smokers. The smokers will oblige even if it is -30C. as long as they can smoke.

People , second hand smoke on a patio really isn't that bad. If you think it is you need to get out of N.America and live a little bit of real life. Like a previous post about Italians having the same life expectancy and cancer rates as Americans except they actually know how to live those years. Man do the Italians know how to live life to the fullest!
Viva Italia!

[Uncarved]

I think the patio law is BS. I am a smoker... seems like one of the only ones on here. I would rather prefer non-smoking inside than this stupid patio law. During stampede you can't have a smoke in the beer gardens, however you are aloud to have a smoke 10 ft away where all the kids, and family's are. And it is the same with patios all over the place, maybe they should just ban smoking on the street also.

The bars will still have customers if they go to non smoking, and heck they might even set up specialty smoking rooms inside for those people that need the quick fix, like in airports, or some places in BC.

[Bring_Back_Shantz]

Originally Posted by Circa89

People , second hand smoke on a patio really isn't that bad.

A little asbestos isn't that bad either.
I don't think the isn't that bad arguement is applicable when you're talking about a carcenogen.
It's pretty tough to just get a little cancer.

[Bobblehead]

Originally Posted by fotze

Well in a cruelly ironic twist, I just found out my mom has lung cancer. She is a smoker.

I'm sorry fotze. My hopes go out for her and your entire family.

[Cheese]

Everytime I travel to Calgary I find myself stinking like a cigarette on the flight home....funny cuz I dont smoke.
The even sillier excuse that a smokers smoke doesnt affect me outside is so stupid I cant even fathom an answer...I dont care about Buses, or cars or any other pollutants....but if you light up beside me you are purposely causing me grief....take your cigs and go find a smoking bar, or do it in your own home.

Its hard to believe that something so carcinogenic is still legal in a forward thinking country.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by fotze

Well in a cruelly ironic twist, I just found out my mom has lung cancer. She is a smoker.

Sorry to hear that fotze. My thoughts go out to you and your family.

[calculoso]

Originally Posted by Circa89

but they have to re-open the patios to smokers.

No, they don't.. and I hope they won't.

If smokers will smoke in -30 weather, a short walk to get off of the patio and outside shouldn't be an issue.

Originally Posted by Circa89

People , second hand smoke on a patio really isn't that bad. If you think it is you need to get out of N.America and live a little bit of real life.

People, living without cigarettes really isn't that bad. If you think it is you need to get out of the habit and live a little bit of real life.