What political issue can swing your vote?

[Canada 02]

Originally Posted by transplant99

though it must be pointed out that much of the modernized world also incurred heavy debt during that time.

Sure, the Americans were paying for the Vietnam War and the Cold war, but what was Trudeau's excuse? He had booming oil prices from 73 to 80, but rather than take advantage of Canada's resource strengths he implements the NEP to crush our economic prosperity.

[transplant99]

And just found this from a Dec. 2005 article...

In 1993, Tax Freedom Day -- that being the day you stop working for government and start working for yourself and your family, was June 6.



In 2005, Tax Freedom Day fell on June 26. In other words, we're all working an extra three weeks to feed the ravenous (and in the case of the feds, corrupt and thieving) government machines that are recording record surpluses every year. While Tax Freedom Day calculates all the taxes Canadians pay, fully four months of the six months we toil for taxes is spent fuelling the federal government.

John Williamson, federal director of the CTF, says while it's true the Liberal government cut taxes in 2000, what they gave back to Canadians with one hand, they removed with the other via CPP premium increases and other tax hikes.

What's more, that tax cut in 2000 was overbilled in a big way. The Liberal government claimed their five-year tax cut added up to $100.5 billion.
The CTF checked that claim out and discovered it was exaggerated by more than half. In reality, the five-year tax cut plan devised in 2000 delivered a $46-billion cut.

Since the Liberals have taken office, the amount of government revenue collected from the GST has nearly doubled.

The Liberals, of course, campaigned in 1993 that it would "scrap" and "abolish" the GST -- the hated 7% consumption tax. Of course, it's still here and only the Conservative Party vows to reduce it first to 6% and then to 5% within five years.
The total amount of income taxes collected have doubled, including personal income taxes, which are up by 82%.

Ouch.

[Hakan]

Originally Posted by Canada 02

You should get your facts straight. 1968, Trudeau takes power - Canada National debt less than $20B. When he left office in '84 it was ~$200B. The country was so heavily in debt that Mulroney had no choice but to implemented the GST just to pay the interest on all of Trudeau's over-spending

Yes and Mulroney doubled the national debt in only 8 years spending more than Trudeau did in almost twenty. Get your facts straight.

Besides, if Mulroney needed the tax to pay for all of Trudeau's mistakes why did he institute a full five years after he was first elected? Jeez murphy.

[Canada 02]

Originally Posted by Hakan

Yes and Mulroney doubled the national debt in only 8 years spending more than Trudeau did in almost twenty. Get your facts straight.

1200% vs 100%

[Hakan]

200bn/8yrs vs. (by your numbers) 182bn/20 years

Get a clue.

[Hakan]

Oh and I'm sure you're going to argue that Trudeau handcuffed Mulroney into making all that spending. Yep Trudeau signed the invoice for those 4 nuclear submarines! Oh wait...

[Bobblehead]

So Canada02, if the Liberals or NDP offered to privatize healthcare, you would vote for them? (slowly nudging the thread back on track...)

[Canada 02]

in 1984 the interest rates in Canada was ~12% Even if Mulroney has an otherwise balanced budget, he is $24B in the hole just paying the interest for the Trudeau years. Of course we can continue on with this debate, bring up issues like debt to GDP, but you've been sufficiently schooled!

[calculoso]

What's more, that tax cut in 2000 was overbilled in a big way. The Liberal government claimed their five-year tax cut added up to $100.5 billion.
The CTF checked that claim out and discovered it was exaggerated by more than half. In reality, the five-year tax cut plan devised in 2000 delivered a $46-billion cut.

No wonder they think the Conservatives will run a deficit... sheesh

[Ironhorse]

Back on topic.

The government that keeps their hands out of my pockets generally gets my ear the most.

[Canada 02]

Originally Posted by Bobblehead

So Canada02, if the Liberals or NDP offered to privatize healthcare, you would vote for them? (slowly nudging the thread back on track...)

I support a multi-teered health care system. Ralph Klein is the only politician who openly advocates it even though every province has it to a certain extent. It can work under certain circumstances. For example, cataract surgery. In a private clinic, it costs ~$700 per eye; its a quick procedure, in and out in a few hours. The same procedure done at the Lougheed cost ~$1000, the patient occupies a bed and a room for most of the day, and is waited on by hospital staff, nurses etc

[Hakan]

By schooled you mean won the argument? Ok then we agree.

This is my final post on this, under Mulroney's government Canada had not accrued a larger debt to GDP ratio in the history of the Federation. Trudeau may have increased the debt by 1000% but percentages mean squat compared to real numbers. Mulroney only increased the debt by 100% but had WAY more debt to double. 1200% more than Trudeau did when he was Prime Minister.

Now please, you're embarrassing yourself.

[Bend it like Bourgeois]

Originally Posted by Marc Ciampa

If a party had in their platform that they were going to shelf the CRTC I'd considering voting for them.

Thats an interesting one. Seems an odd choice as a hill to die on. Or vote on.

Just a passionate dislike for the CRTC?

[Canada 02]

Originally Posted by Hakan

This is my final post on this, under Mulroney's government Canada had not accrued a larger debt to GDP ratio in the history of the Federation.

Actually, the Cretin Liberals get that honour at 73.4%, but regardless the $200B in debt tacked on during the Mulroney years could be accounted for by interest payments alone on the $200B legacy of the Trudeau years. In summary, we can thank Mr Trudeau for ****ing up our country.

[PYroMaNiaC]

Interesting. Fuel for the fire?

http://www.caw.ca/news/factsfromthefringe/issue82.asp

Enjoy!

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by Canada 02

Actually, the Cretin Liberals get that honour at 73.4%, but regardless the $200B in debt tacked on during the Mulroney years could be accounted for by interest payments alone on the $200B legacy of the Trudeau years. In summary, we can thank Mr Trudeau for ****ing up our country.

I haven't followed too closely, but I just want to be clear on what you are saying.

When the Liberals (Trudeau) put Canada in debt, it's the Liberal's fault. When Conservatives put Canada into further debt, it's the Liberal's fault. When the Liberals (Chretien, Martin) start to pay down that debt and see surpluses, it's not the Liberals fault.

Is that about it?

[MarchHare]

And just found this from a Dec. 2005 article...

The whole concept of tax freedom day is incredibly flawed, if you actually look at the Fraser Institute's methodology. For example, they include tobacco taxes when they calculate the figure of how much tax the "average" Canadian pays. But according to Statscan, only about 20% of Canadians are smokers. It would seem to me that the "average" Canadian pays $0 in tobacco taxes each year.

The 2002 federal budget shows that the Liberals have increased tax revenues by more than $24.2 billion since taking office (1993-2002). This means that every taxpayer has had to shell out an additional $1800 per year in hidden or obvious taxes. The Liberals spent there way to surplus by taking your money. Period.

That increased amount of tax revenues couldn't have anything at all to do with the fact that the economy was much stronger in 2002 than it was in 1993, could it? Afterall, isn't that the wet-dream of Reagenomics -- by lowering tax rates, businesses will perform better, thus strenghting the economy and ultimately generating more tax revenue?

And is your figure adjusted for inflation? What percentage of the overall federal budget amounts to $24.2 billion? How much was inflation in that 10-year period?

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

The whole concept of tax freedom day is incredibly flawed, if you actually look at the Fraser Institute's methodology. For example, they include tobacco taxes when they calculate the figure of how much tax the "average" Canadian pays. But according to Statscan, only about 20% of Canadians are smokers. It would seem to me that the "average" Canadian pays $0 in tobacco taxes each year.

That could be...i have no idea.

This fact IS disturbing though...(if accurate, as there are different ways of calculating this as well)

The total amount of income taxes collected have doubled, including personal income taxes, which are up by 82%.

[transplant99]

That increased amount of tax revenues couldn't have anything at all to do with the fact that the economy was much stronger in 2002 than it was in 1993, could it?

So the economy was stronger...therefore the Liberals SHOULD take more taxes? Is that what you are suggesting?

[MarchHare]

So the economy was stronger...therefore the Liberals SHOULD take more taxes? Is that what you are suggesting?

No, what I'm suggesting is that with a stronger economy the Liberals would have taken in more tax revenue by leaving tax rates the same or even lowering them. For example (I'm making all these numbers up, by the way, to illustrate the point):

Suppose corporate tax rates were 15% in 1993 but were lowered to 10% in 2002.

In 1993, Business A was struggling during the recession and had revenues $100 million. They paid $15 million in taxes, leaving $85 million for the company.

In 2002, the economy was booming, and Business A had revenues of $300 million. They paid $30 million in taxes, leaving $270 for the company.

OMG THE FIBERALS STOLE $15 MILLION MORE IN TAXES FROM THE COMPANY!!!!!11

So do you see how that works? In a stronger economy, the government will take in more tax revenues by keeping rates the same or potentially even lowering them. With Canada's economy performing much better in 2002 than it was in 1993, it's only natural that government tax revenues would be up.