Sutter and Markstrom's Minutes

[EVERLAST]

Blessings in disguise. 2021-22 what a year.

If I were Darryl I'd feel pretty good that all his plans could have been destroyed .....but weren't.

Shows the mindset he has always had. You can't keep a good coach down nor a good team, management etc.
This feels good knowing no matter what you throw our direction well get through it and benefit from the hard lessons .

This is how Championship teams ,cultures are built.
I was pretty convinced when Darryl was brought back but I had no idea he'd liken it to flipping a switch and in just over a year .....BOOM.

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I would assume Markstrom will start the last game of the season either way. He won't want too long a break going into game one.

3 road games in 4 nights to finish the season (NAS/off/MIN/WPG). I would hope JM only plays 1 of them (ideally MIN on the 28th). Especially since NAS is a very likely rd 1 opponent and might crash the net especially hard.

Originally Posted by FireGilbert

There is a saying in football that the backup QB is the most popular player in town. A few Flames fans seem to feel this way about the backup goalie.

Markstrom has been excellent and I trust Sutter to manage his workload effectively.

This has nothing to do with preferring the backup.

Look at Kipper and Quick's gp numbers relative to their team's playoff success.

Quick played 60+ games 6 times (twice pre-Sutter), and only made it out of the 1st rd once (you could actually say 50+ since he never started 50-60 games; of course he did play > 75% games in the lockout season where they went to the CF)

Kipper's even more dramatic: 7 stratight 71gp+ seasons. 0 round wins.


And to be clear, I don't think the relationship is necessarily causal between goalie fatigue and playoff failure, but rather that mediocre teams are propped up by elite goalies playing a ton.

We should also consider Markstrom's history:
60 reg gp + 0
60 reg gp + 0
43 reg gp (COVID stoppage) +14 PO where he was very good..at least for the first 10...before .897 with 15 GA in 4gp against VGK (tbf his team only gave him 5 GF); then Demko allowed 2GA .984 in the last 3 games.

Those playoffs were particularly compressed with a b2b in each series.

COVID breaks or not this year, he's never had to play from October to May (and hopefully June)


Markstrom will blow his 60gp high out of the water this year. Compared to Quick, who had 72+6 and 61+6 in the two years before his 69+20 cup year.

[BigRed]

Originally Posted by dino7c

And he played so few because he was the 3rd stringer in SJ and played one game

9 years in Calgary. Made the playoffs 5 times. Lost in the 1st round 4 of them, 2 - 6 game defeats and 2 - 7’s.

https://www.nhl.com/player/miikka-ki...hl&season=null


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[Bingo]

The Kiprusoff years were fraught with that everything has to go right mentality ... they just found a way to lose.

Sure feels like in Calgary they don't get a lot of luck every year, and then all of it every 15 years, but that sounds too whiney.

Has to be more than that.

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by BigRed

9 years in Calgary. Made the playoffs 5 times. Lost in the 1st round 4 of them, 2 - 6 game defeats and 2 - 7’s.

https://www.nhl.com/player/miikka-ki...hl&season=null


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And in two of those series losses he had a save percentage over 920 - not the reason they lost in the slightest.

[BigRed]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

And in two of those series losses he had a save percentage over 920 - not the reason they lost in the slightest.

Not saying he was. But it’s not true that San Jose is somehow to blame. He played 80% of his career in Calgary, so it was the Flames’ lack of playoff success, for a variety of reasons, that led to him only being a series-winning goalie in only one of those seasons.


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[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by BigRed

Not saying he was. But it’s not true that San Jose is somehow to blame. He played 80% of his career in Calgary, so it was the Flames’ lack of playoff success, for a variety of reasons, that led to him only being a series-winning goalie in only one of those seasons.


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That’s not the point at all. The point is workload was not to blame

[BigRed]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

That’s not the point at all. The point is workload was not to blame

The team sure laid some eggs in front of him for sure. As Bingo says, who knows why? The weight of expectations maybe.

There was one year I recall them playing well and Kipper being off his game -- they were just never in synch. As far as workload, who knows? He played a lot. Hard to believe that doesn't affect you.


EDIT: It was 2009, when they lost in 6 to Chicago. Kipper was .882.

[Bingo]

I honestly think the Canadian drought is largely due to pressure ... fans want it bad, so players want it bad and they seize up.

[Enoch Root]

I definitely think there are times that Kipper was worn out.

I also agree that the pressure on Canadian teams is immense. But I also think that there is a cap disadvantage, due to the fact that the Canadian teams have to pay a premium to entice UFAs north of the border. It isn't a huge disadvantage, but it is definitely a headwind.

I also think that it is harder to be patient and play the long game in Canada - fans are way too impatient, and they and the media apply constant pressure on the GMs for change.

[Hot_Flatus]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

If he overworked him and we go into the playoffs with a tired goalie and get knocked out in the first round? Yeah, I would.

I think there's bigger issues to worry about such as the general team actually showing up and playing to their abilities in the playoffs for a change. What is the metric here for this anyway? 7 starts would be a fireable offense for you, but 6 would be ok? None of this makes any sense when it's more about games played / over a specific period of time.

At any rate, I'd be shocked if Vladar doesn't get 4 (maybe even 5) starts down the stretch, but is even 7 starts over the next 20-21 days before the playoffs begin really a heavy workload for Markstrom either way? I don't see it. For a high end starting goalie that is about as good as it gets.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Hot_Flatus

I think there's bigger issues to worry about such as the general team actually showing up and playing to their abilities in the playoffs for a change. What is the metric here for this anyway? 7 starts would be a fireable offense for you, but 6 would be ok? None of this makes any sense when it's more about games played / over a specific period of time.

At any rate, I'd be shocked if Vladar doesn't get 4 (maybe even 5) starts down the stretch, but is even 7 starts over the next 20-21 days before the playoffs begin really a heavy workload for Markstrom either way? I don't see it. For a high end starting goalie that is about as good as it gets.

What ever happened to reading comprehension? First of all, I didn't give a number as a fireable offense. Here is what I said:

but if he plays Markstrom 8 or 9 times from here, and Markstrom hits the playoffs tired, that is a fire-able offense

The key words in that sentence are 'if' and 'and'. IF Sutter overworks him (for no reason, as they will win the division regardless) AND Maskstrom is tired and thus they lose in the first round...

It's a cause and effect argument, it isn't about the number of games.

[GioforPM]

In the last fairly full season, the Cup winning goalie played 74% of the season's 70 games. That's pretty close to what Markstrom will end up with. He's at 79% now and his games will go down in the run off.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

In the last fairly full season, the Cup winning goalie played 74% of the season's 70 games. That's pretty close to what Markstrom will end up with. He's at 79% now and his games will go down in the run off.

He should be well rested, and it shouldn't be a problem.

But I think the 74% of games played argument misses an important detail -I think it's important how much the goalie plays down the stretch. If he plays 70 games but gets a lighter load for the last couple weeks, he should be in good shape.

Conversely, a goalie that only played 50-55 games, but had to play the last dozen, because his team was fighting for a playoff spot, is going to be much more tired.

It isn't as straight-forward as total games for the season (though that certainly does matter to some extent)

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

He should be well rested, and it shouldn't be a problem.

But I think the 74% of games played argument misses an important detail -I think it's important how much the goalie plays down the stretch. If he plays 70 games but gets a lighter load for the last couple weeks, he should be in good shape.

Conversely, a goalie that only played 50-55 games, but had to play the last dozen, because his team was fighting for a playoff spot, is going to be much more tired.

It isn't as straight-forward as total games for the season (though that certainly does matter to some extent)

True. And the season for Vasileskiy I quoted had the huge break between PO and regular season.