QOTD: Will the Flames pull out of this tail spin?

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by saillias

Not singling you out but I am so sick of seeing this line. What is "gravy" supposed to mean in this context? Why is this whole season gravy? Is this somehow implying the whole NHL season was just a writeoff for the Flames org? BS.

PS I don't even like gravy.

It's pretty obvious what it means. "Gravy" is something extra than what you were going to get.

This season was supposed to be a big losing one. Some writers had the Flames in last place. So anything better than a bottom 3 or so finish is better than expected.

Your last statement shows how valid your opinion is. Next you will say you don't like bacon.

[Tron_fdc]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

The fact they only had nine minutes reflects only that they play on the 4th line.

IMO The Flames lost last night because Chicago is a hell of a team. They lost in Pittsburgh because of the first couple minutes, in which Monahan's line wasn't ready for the start against the big line. They lost in Buffalo because of a couple huge defensive gaffes (after soundly outplaying the Sabres). And Toronto has been a handful for their last bunch of opponents.

You win games when your 3rd/4th line players (or in this case, returning players taking 4th line player minutes) score goals or grind out the opposition when your top lines get shut down. IMO this is why we are losing 1 goal games (ignoring empty net goals). Shut down our top line(s) and you get Mr Faceoff Matt Stajan right now.

When is the last time that happened? Granlund in Toronto? When has Stajan or Raymond controlled the play in any way the last 4 games? Baertschi was creating chances, so was Ferland. They stuck out with their speed and energy, and their linemates were scoring off chances they helped create. Stajan sticks out because he's invisible right now, same with Raymond.

Raymond isn't getting 9 minutes because he's a 4th liner. He's getting 9 minutes because he was terrible and needs to be better.

Mark my words, when those 2 (and Colbourne for that matter) start putting up any kind of points or creating chances, this team will start winning. Teams can focus on our top line and limit its points, but the game will be won or lost in the trenches of the bottom 6 players. You HAVE to have that to be successful in this league.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Tron_fdc

You win games when your 3rd/4th line players (or in this case, returning players taking 4th line player minutes) score goals or grind out the opposition when your top lines get shut down. IMO this is why we are losing 1 goal games (ignoring empty net goals). Shut down our top line(s) and you get Mr Faceoff Matt Stajan right now.

When is the last time that happened? Granlund in Toronto? When has Stajan or Raymond controlled the play in any way the last 4 games? Baertschi was creating chances, so was Ferland. They stuck out with their speed and energy, and their linemates were scoring off chances they helped create. Stajan sticks out because he's invisible right now, same with Raymond.

Raymond isn't getting 9 minutes because he's a 4th liner. He's getting 9 minutes because he was terrible and needs to be better.

Mark my words, when those 2 (and Colbourne for that matter) start putting up any kind of points or creating chances, this team will start winning. Teams can focus on our top line and limit its points, but the game will be won or lost in the trenches of the bottom 6 players. You HAVE to have that to be successful in this league.

I'm afraid the facts are that Ferland had one assist, and his linemates weren't scoring. And I like him a lot. Baertschi had 3 assists (all in 2 games) and was a minus 4. So linemates generally weren't "scoring off chances he created" when he was on the ice - opponents were. And, with apologies to the fans of his, he did not stand out, compared to any Flame not named Bollig, McGrattan or Setoguchi.

Stajan hasn't been invisible - he's been pretty effective in his minutes - he was quite good against SJ and Toronto. Way more than Knight. I've agreed that Raymond hasn't been good. Colborne has been as good as any other forward not named Gaudreau IMO.

[Tron_fdc]

Jooris and Granlund weren't scoring? Huh. Coulda sworn Ferland was on that line, because when Ferland, Granlund and Jooris were on the ice they were a big handful for other teams.

I'm not comparing Baertschi to Bollig et all, I'm comparing him to Stajan and Raymond.

Ferland/Baertschi is MILES ahead of Stajan/Raymond right now. That's my entire point. Those 2 need to get better, and when they do the bottom six improves. Again, THAT is where you win a close game.

[GioforPM]

Jooris and Granlund weren't scoring? Huh. Coulda sworn Ferland was on that line, because when Ferland, Granlund and Jooris were on the ice they were a big handful for other teams.

Jooris was on a line with Hudler and Gaudreau.

Ferland moved up and down but played a lot on the 4th (his last game was with Stajan and Bouma). He did play some with Granlund and Byron.

And you said Sven "stood out". That's not comparing him to guys who weren't on the roster - that's comparing him to others on the team at the time.

[Tron_fdc]

Jesus.

Jooris was not exclusively on a line with Hudler and Gaudreau, he also played with Granlund and Ferland. But hey, if you want to say Ferland was exclusively with Granlund and Byron, I seem to recall Granlund to be a PPG player (or close to) when he was up. Would you call that linemate scoring? I'm not going to bother to look up Byrons stats until he figures out how to score on a breakaway.

Baertschi stood out a whole hell of a lot more than Stajan and Raymond are right now, which is who I'm comparing him to. You are the one throwing out Bollig, not me.

Here is my point.

Ferland/Baertschi > Stajan/Raymond over the last 5 games.

What the former pair could have brought the last 5 games (IMO) is the difference between this team at 2-3 and 0-5, and we're not even having this conversation. We had what, 4, 1 goal games and (again, my opinion) Ferland/Baertschi would have closed that gap considerably by playing on the bottom 6.

Raymond and Stajan need to be better. Colbourne has been since he came back, so there's no excuse for those other 2.

[SofaProfessor]

Option B. Was there even any doubt when the Flames were at their best that it wouldn't be a battle for top 8? I recall just weeks ago we were talking about all the good teams nipping at the heels of Calgary. They will get out of this tail spin. It will be a battle. I think they're likely to win more than they lose. These games will be a blip on the radar when all is said and done.