The Effects of Creatine

[Wookie]

Originally posted by CaptainCrunch@Aug 6 2005, 06:03 PM
Just one mans position.

I've been weight training for about 20 years since I was 18, I'm not super ripped, but I'm not a blob, I'm about 6 feet, 255. Bench 275, arm curled up to 55 (until I tore a bicep a few week ago, etc etc. Except for a stupid experiment with Steroids when I was playing high school ball, I've gotten my results without the benefit of supplements except for vitamins. I eat 5 times a day and go through cycles where I eat an insane amount of proteins (lean chickens and fish especially)

The frustration point that causes a lot of people to just quit is that initially your results are huge, you can actually see pretty big changes in 6 week patterns, but every 6 weeks the results go down, so in the first 6 weeks you might increase your lift load by 25%, but then it shrinks after that.

I've read some horrible things about creatine, especially if you constantly use it, its like anything else where you need to give your body a break from it to purge it from your system.

Where I'm weak right now is on my aerobic type work outs and because of that my belly don't look as good as it did when I was 25.

the hard part for me right now, it that my injury has pretty much stopped me from any kind of lifting beyond a ludicrously light weight for another 4 weeks.

I thought you smoked and had a terrible diet and worked non-stop? No offense, but I have a memory of a post of yours saying so lol. Bench 275... panzy

6-Foot 255, you're a pretty big guy, I'm 6-foot 190 - 205 depending on what I ate/drank that day and what not. I'd although I'm mod-twenties and I guess you fill out all around with age, cripes that has me nervous, I wanted to stay in the same shape for the next 30-40 years.. maybe get a bit weaker, but my weight makes me happy

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally posted by Wookie+Aug 7 2005, 01:08 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Wookie @ Aug 7 2005, 01:08 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-CaptainCrunch@Aug 6 2005, 06:03 PM
Just one mans position.

I've been weight training for about 20 years since I was 18, I'm not super ripped, but I'm not a blob, I'm about 6 feet, 255. Bench 275, arm curled up to 55 (until I tore a bicep a few week ago, etc etc. Except for a stupid experiment with Steroids when I was playing high school ball, I've gotten my results without the benefit of supplements except for vitamins. I eat 5 times a day and go through cycles where I eat an insane amount of proteins (lean chickens and fish especially)

The frustration point that causes a lot of people to just quit is that initially your results are huge, you can actually see pretty big changes in 6 week patterns, but every 6 weeks the results go down, so in the first 6 weeks you might increase your lift load by 25%, but then it shrinks after that.

I've read some horrible things about creatine, especially if you constantly use it, its like anything else where you need to give your body a break from it to purge it from your system.

Where I'm weak right now is on my aerobic type work outs and because of that my belly don't look as good as it did when I was 25.

the hard part for me right now, it that my injury has pretty much stopped me from any kind of lifting beyond a ludicrously light weight for another 4 weeks.

I thought you smoked and had a terrible diet and worked non-stop? No offense, but I have a memory of a post of yours saying so lol. Bench 275... panzy

6-Foot 255, you're a pretty big guy, I'm 6-foot 190 - 205 depending on what I ate/drank that day and what not. I'd although I'm mod-twenties and I guess you fill out all around with age, cripes that has me nervous, I wanted to stay in the same shape for the next 30-40 years.. maybe get a bit weaker, but my weight makes me happy [/b][/quote]
I changed a lot of things up, I slipped into a really bad diet and some really bad habits, but I never stopped going to the gym, because it was either that or start punching guys out in the office. A lot of my heart condition was caused by a viral infection, that compounded with some of the bad habits that I picked up, and I did some real funky damage.

My biggest sin is that I still smoke, its next on my list, but I'm down from about a pack a day to 12 smokes, but I balanced that out by pretty much cutting beer and booze out of my life. At one point I was about 280, I want to get down to about 235, that would be pretty good for the frame that I have.

There are things I could improve, certainly, but its easy to eat 5 times a day, you pack a lot of snacks tho.

Am I a paragon of health or some ripped guy, absolutely not, but I'm a huge amount above where I was 12 month ago.

And I don't work non stop anymore, I still work hard, and I travel a lot, but most hotels that I stay at have a decent gym, so instead of staying in my room, or drinking beer, I can work out, and try to pick up hot chicks at the hotel.

[Jake]

Originally posted by Wookie@Aug 6 2005, 03:24 PM
I had some kidney problems years ago, and had to see a nephrologist (kidney doctor for anyone who didn't know) at the foothills, he told me creatine wouldn't do anything bad to me. Talk# to me in 20 years? Sure, but if that's our theory maybe you shouldn't be telling people to# take more protein, because your kidneys also have a great deal to do with protein digestion and increased protein can lead to kidney stones and other kidney related difficulties.

If you actually read my posts I said don't go by what it says on the container and only take it either before or after you work out (I take it after because doing sit ups while water is sloshing in your stomach is not pleasant). One dose of protein supplement is usually around 20 grams. The recommended daily intake of protein in your diet is 0.8 grams per 2.2 pounds. I'm 6'4 and weigh 205 pounds so adding 20 grams of protein to my daily diet is not nearly as significant as adding 5 grams of creatine each day. However, ingesting this amount of protein after working out helps me alot because that is when your muscles want it.

At 205 pounds I should be taking in 164 grams of protein daily, which I wouldn't get to without a protein supplement. I need to keep my body fat low for sporting reasons. Because of this need taking a protein supplement has helped me since the type I take has 0 g carbs and 0 g fat (unlike other sources such as red meat).

Back on topic... 20 grams in a 164 gram daily diet of protein is, as a percentage very low. 5 grams is one average dose of creatine (some people may take 2-3), this additional creatine to your diet is huge seeing as your body produces very small amounts and the average person will take in less than 3 grams per day. As a percentage the additional 20 g protein to my diet is only 12%, whereas 5 grams of creatine (once again, many people will take 5 grams more than once) is well over 100%.

[Wookie]

Originally posted by CaptainCrunch+Aug 6 2005, 07:25 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (CaptainCrunch @ Aug 6 2005, 07:25 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

I thought you smoked and had a terrible diet and worked non-stop? No offense, but I have a memory of a post of yours saying so lol. Bench 275... panzy

6-Foot 255, you're a pretty big guy, I'm 6-foot 190 - 205 depending on what I ate/drank that day and what not. I'd although I'm mod-twenties and I guess you fill out all around with age, cripes that has me nervous, I wanted to stay in the same shape for the next 30-40 years.. maybe get a bit weaker, but my weight makes me happy

I changed a lot of things up, I slipped into a really bad diet and some really bad habits, but I never stopped going to the gym, because it was either that or start punching guys out in the office. A lot of my heart condition was caused by a viral infection, that compounded with some of the bad habits that I picked up, and I did some real funky damage.

My biggest sin is that I still smoke, its next on my list, but I'm down from about a pack a day to 12 smokes, but I balanced that out by pretty much cutting beer and booze out of my life. At one point I was about 280, I want to get down to about 235, that would be pretty good for the frame that I have.

There are things I could improve, certainly, but its easy to eat 5 times a day, you pack a lot of snacks tho.

Am I a paragon of health or some ripped guy, absolutely not, but I'm a huge amount above where I was 12 month ago.

And I don't work non stop anymore, I still work hard, and I travel a lot, but most hotels that I stay at have a decent gym, so instead of staying in my room, or drinking beer, I can work out, and try to pick up hot chicks at the hotel.

[/b][/quote]
Well that's all positive, I'm sure I could easily fall into the same trap, minus the booze, smoking and being consumed by work..

J/K

I'll always go to the gym I guess, I can't not go to the gym, it's like a sickness, which is good I guess.

But school and work I could see cutting into the weight maintanence, which for the past 7 years I haven't let happen, at teh expense of school work, lol.

Anyway this thread was inspiring, I jsut go back from a rollerblade.. wow, I love the bow river path, going to go again tomorrow, and now I'll take off to teh gime.. gime, ohhh GIime

[Jake]

Originally posted by arsenal+Aug 6 2005, 03:34 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (arsenal @ Aug 6 2005, 03:34 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Jake@Aug 6 2005, 02:17 PM
"it's potentially hazardous to the health to take very high doses of creatine for a prolonged period of time. Experts caution that extended high doses can lead to kidney and liver problems."

"Long-term use of high doses of creatine could potentially damage the kidneys. Don't take creatine if your kidney function is impaired."

That just like every other warning out there.
I hope you noticed the high doses in there. It is just like everything else in the world. If you abuse it, it is going to bite you in the ass. [/b][/quote]
I did notice high doses in there... read the post I just made (above Wookies last one). A "high dose" doesn't mean simply high in grams! That term describes not the sheer amount of creatine, but in terms of what your body normally takes in. Like I said before one dose of creatine is 5 grams, well over 100% more than our daily intake. Most users probably take more than one (I admit I used to take two a day).

In other words, ONE dose of creatine is a high dose!!

[Wookie]

Originally posted by Jake+Aug 6 2005, 07:33 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Jake @ Aug 6 2005, 07:33 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Wookie@Aug 6 2005, 03:24 PM
I had some kidney problems years ago, and had to see a nephrologist (kidney doctor for anyone who didn't know) at the foothills, he told me creatine wouldn't do anything bad to me. Talk# to me in 20 years? Sure, but if that's our theory maybe you shouldn't be telling people to# take more protein, because your kidneys also have a great deal to do with protein digestion and increased protein can lead to kidney stones and other kidney related difficulties.

If you actually read my posts I said don't go by what it says on the container and only take it either before or after you work out (I take it after because doing sit ups while water is sloshing in your stomach is not pleasant). One dose of protein supplement is usually around 20 grams. The recommended daily intake of protein in your diet is 0.8 grams per 2.2 pounds. I'm 6'4 and weigh 205 pounds so adding 20 grams of protein to my daily diet is not nearly as significant as adding 5 grams of creatine each day. However, ingesting this amount of protein after working out helps me alot because that is when your muscles want it.

At 205 pounds I should be taking in 164 grams of protein daily, which I wouldn't get to without a protein supplement. I need to keep my body fat low for sporting reasons. Because of this need taking a protein supplement has helped me since the type I take has 0 g carbs and 0 g fat (unlike other sources such as red meat).

Back on topic... 20 grams in a 164 gram daily diet of protein is, as a percentage very low. 5 grams is one average dose of creatine (some people may take 2-3), this additional creatine to your diet is huge seeing as your body produces very small amounts and the average person will take in less than 3 grams per day. As a percentage the additional 20 g protein to my diet is only 12%, whereas 5 grams of creatine (once again, many people will take 5 grams more than once) is well over 100%. [/b][/quote]
I read your posts, so don't accuse me of not reading them.

I love my protein, and eat a fair amount of it, what I was concerned with was your rhetoric that creatine is so bad for you without having any proof to back it up other than hearsay and "talk to me in 20 years" whereas I could say the same thing about protein supplementation..

Show me clinical studies that show all the negative stuff about creatine and I'll re-think my position.

[Wookie]

I'd be skeptical about a website deeming creatine safe named "asolute-creatine.com" as well as the valaditity of the 1999 studies

http://www.absolute-creatine.com/4.htm

[Wookie]

Here is a really good one..

I forgot one thing that I've never been able to not do whenever I tried creatine,

"It is interesting to note that one study, which looked at intermittent, high intensity work, found that caffeine completely abolished the ergogenic effect of creatine supplementation (7). Despite this, some of the commonly available supplements, such as powdered drink mixes possessing many ingredients, contain both creatine and caffeine !"

I drink about 3 cups of coffee a day and probably did whenever I used creatine... whoops

http://www.rice.edu/~jenky/sports/creatine.html

"The bottom line is that no one can confidently state that prolonged creatine supplementation is safe, and its use would best be avoided until more data can be compiled. Prolonged administration is, in essence, an uncontrolled toxicity study and one which might yield harmful results. Is it worth the risk? Remember, it's your body!"

[Shawnski]

First of all, there is a misconception of what creatine actually does. It is a natural element in the body that helps to buffer lactic acid buildup in the skeletal muscles (which causes muscle pain) when one engages in anaerobic exercises like lifting weights (or lifting KevanGuy).

"Creatine loading" is the term used for taking a significant additional dose of creatine about an hour before performing the anaerobic activity, with the thought being that you will be able to lift that extra few reps, tear more muscle tissue in the process and thus cause the muscle to rebound bigger and better than ever.

Depending on whom you listen to, that may be true.... it also may not be true.

Can't link to a story, but I was watching a nutrition show recently where they did a study with older men (40-50) trying to gain muscle mass. Those taking creatine alone, and those taking protein alone made a small gain. Those taking both combined showed a significant gain in muscle mass. Now, you might be low in natural creatine levels in the body (like older men) and this might benefit you.

However, I believe there is a far better way in the long run.

Aerobic exercise also drops lactic acid levels rather quickly. Cross training within a workout can allow you to lift more within a session, thus giving you similar results without the side effects of the water buildup you get when you are using creatine (and subsequently lose fast when you don't). Additionally, having a partner that can "assist" the last few reps in each set you do is far more important in achieving muscle fatigue (a good thing) than trying to suppliment your way to that point.

Shocking your body is the best way to achieve the best results. You will find that if you only do one or two activities, your body will acclimatize to it in no time, and no further progress will occur. Do different activities; change the game. And above all, when lifting weights, don't be so concerned with the mass you are lifting, as your ability to go "full range" on each rep that you are doing... use the whole muscle.

Your metabolism very well may turn on you, and the cheeseburger crap will ultimately backfire. Eat well, exercise often, and in many, many different ways, and you will have the best body that was given to you.... for life.

Last point on protein... many are unaware that the "immitation crab" that you find in your food store is actually pollock, a very clean protein, and one that you can nibble on, toss into a salad, etc. Turkey breast and chicken breast meats are other somewhat clean protein sources. Fishes vary widely in protein to fat ratios. And don't be afraid of fats... many are quite good for you. Check into virgin coconut oil as a replacement for butter, for example.

Cheers, good luck, and don't be afraid of your metabolism.... better your friend, than your foe.

[Coolsurfer79]

Go google creatine in misc.fitness.weight. Lots of people on that group know that stuff very well. Most say it does nothing much at all, but they go into further explanations.

[Eddie Bronze]

Jon, I'm surprised at you man. Your a good ole Caper and you don't have the good sense to go talk to a fellow Caper, who is sure to help you out with the situation?

[Jake]

I love my protein, and eat a fair amount of it, what I was concerned with was your rhetoric that creatine is so bad for you without having any proof to back it up other than hearsay and "talk to me in 20 years" whereas I could say the same thing about protein supplementation..

Show me clinical studies that show all the negative stuff about creatine and I'll re-think my position.

I don't mean this in an offensive way, but I don't care what your opinion is on this. I have looked at facts on my own time and formed my own opinion based on them. I feel no need to find them and post them here to influence your own opinion or anyone elses. However that second website was excellent so thank you!

Before I go on to the studies you mentioned there is the whole protein thing... protein has been in wide use for a longer period than creatine and negative results are rare. I suppose in another 20 years those who have been using it for 40-50 years may see side effects. I've explained my position already, adding 20 grams of protein to your diet isn't very significant. In many cases it is beneficial to get you up to your recomonded daily intake of protein. I couldn't find a web site that contradicts me. After doing a general search some sites even went as far as saying protein has no adverse effects. Even the handy web site that Oil fan gave me has nothing on it (where did he go...?). Although that web site did have information on supplements that help control PMS.

I didn't bother reading the study by Absolute Creatine for reasons that you've already stated, but I did look at the site you posted below it which, I agree, was well done.

This was interesting:

A 70kg adult has about 120g of creatine in the muscles, and the daily turnover is roughly 2g. About half of this is replaced by the diet and half synthesized endogenously.

My earlier estimations accurate, but I was conservative. If anything this further enforces my argument. If you take one 5 gram dose of creatine per day you are multiplying your natural amounts of creatine by 250% or 150% more. In my opinion, one dose is easily a "high dosage" (let alone more than one). That can lead to kidney and liver problems etc I've gone over that already (I've also heard it causes bladder problems, but this study doesn't say anything about it).

Short term (less than 2 weeks) exercise studies have not reported any adverse events associated with creatine supplementation. There have been no long term studies done to evaluate the safety of prolonged administration. This is unfortunate because increasingly more and more athletes are taking creatine supplements for longer periods. Anecdotal reports have begun to emerge and have noted increased muscle cramping (especially during exercise in the heat), nausea and other gastrointestinal disturbances, elevated liver transaminases, and acute renal injury.

Maybe it is those short team studies that the supplement companies are using to say "creatine is safe". This reminds me very much of steriod use. At the begining there were many giving warnings but usage continued and, at the expense of thousands of athletes, we finally understood how bad steriods are (much worse than smoking IMO).

I'll highlight some of the more interesting quotes for people who are in summer mode:

Recently, a baseball player for the Houston Astros was determined to have suffered from dehydration, kidney stones, and transient kidney damage as the result of creatine supplementation. Additionally, the deaths of 3 collegiate wrestlers this past year are being investigated to determine what role creatine supplementation may have played.

Before you tell me, yes these players were probably taking huge amounts, but then again that site told us nothing about the amount of creatine they were taking.

Impurities are present in virtually every manufactured product, and in some cases, even though the product may be considered harmless, the impurity is not. Such was the case in the late 1980's when an epidemic of cases of eosinophilia-myalgia syndrome, including over 30 deaths, were blamed on a contaminant present in L-tryptophan (9), an amino acid supplement widely taken as a sleep aid. Creatine, and other such supplements, are not regulated by the FDA. No published investigation has been conducted on creatine to determine what impurities might be present in creatine supplements, and what their long term effect might be.

The bit about creatine not being regulated by the FDA is disturbing. I'm not willing to trust some companies about what they put into their product when nobody is watching over them. If you want to risk your own body have fun.

The bottom line is that no one can confidently state that prolonged creatine supplementation is safe, and its use would best be avoided until more data can be compiled. Prolonged administration is, in essence, an uncontrolled toxicity study and one which might yield harmful results. Is it worth the risk? Remember, it's your body!

Couldn't have said it better myself.

Theres the study you were looking for Oilers Fan. Thank you Wookie for putting in the work and finding that web site.

Now who said "I can't stress how much crap you are talking"?. I've been waiting to use this for a while: "Never argue with an idiot; they will always take you down to their level, and beat you with experience".

[kermitology]

Originally posted by Wookie+Aug 6 2005, 05:07 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Wookie @ Aug 6 2005, 05:07 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

You mean to tell me that the advice of the Nutritionist that told me to do that was incorrect? Eating a lot of meals that are smaller is better for gaining muscle mass than eating one or two huge meals. Ask a nutritionist..

Did you get your engineering degree in a semester?

Would you trust your nutrition and health to a person that did the equivalent of one semester of school

http://www.csnn.ca/index.htm

I'm not saying that's who you saw, but the title "nutritionist" is pretty vague and can be easily attained

Kind of like taking advice from some tool who claims to be "Pre-med" or "Pre-law" yeah that means a lot [/b][/quote]
she's been in it for 4 years..

[Maritime Q-Scout]

wow... did this thread ever take off more than the 3 or 4 responces I expected when I posted.

a few notes off the top of my head (as I didn't write anything down to remember).

- I know if a guy like Jabba the Hut can get a girl then there must be something more than just looks. But when you're rejected in favour of Jabba... that plays games with your mind.

- Kermitology, I thought when I posted here I'd be the skinniest, and lankiest poster here bar none in the 2000+ registered users. You're an inch shorter than I, and weighted more than I do when you told your story. But you were close, how long did it take to put some weight on? ie: before seeing results

- Captain Crunch, 6 weeks to see changes? As in put on weight, or by lift load you mean I'll go from being able to bench 5lbs (something like that currently haha) to like 25 lbs?

- As evidenced by my joke in the previous point I have ZERO body strength. While I would go to a gym, it's super embarasing to have people watch you life little to no weight with a struggle. I'd compare it to dancing at a bar, I know I make fun of people that dance like me, so I don't dance (unless I'm drunk, or with a girl I'm interested in). I'd use the same theory for the gym.



Ahh for those wondering, I'm 23 and have weighed the same since about grade 9 or 10. I was told when you get to high school your metabolism will slow down and you'll gain some weight. I was cool with that. Then it was after you graduate, then during university... I'm currently a year away from finishing a masters degree, and still, nothing.

For a guy who is funny, smart, makes good money, is an all around good guy, does whatever he can to make sure friends/family are happy, but can't get a girl... dude... what else is left but my weight/appearance?

I don't think it's a matter of being rejected because I'm skinny, but not being on the radar so when something comes up it's like "well yeah we hang out all the time, and have a blast together, etc, but I never thought of him in that way." Whereas if you're overweight, which is common in our society, you're at least on the radar.

[KevanGuy]

Originally posted by Maritime Q-Scout@Aug 7 2005, 01:04 PM
For a guy who is funny, smart, makes good money, is an all around good guy, does whatever he can to make sure friends/family are happy, but can't get a girl... dude... what else is left but my weight/appearance?

I already told ya man, CHEESEBURGERS! Not only will you gain weight but the chicks dig it as well.

[Hack&Lube]

Originally posted by Maritime Q-Scout@Aug 7 2005, 01:04 PM
- I know if a guy like Jabba the Hut can get a girl then there must be something more than just looks. But when you're rejected in favour of Jabba... that plays games with your mind.
- As evidenced by my joke in the previous point I have ZERO body strength. While I would go to a gym, it's super embarasing to have people watch you life little to no weight with a struggle. I'd compare it to dancing at a bar, I know I make fun of people that dance like me, so I don't dance (unless I'm drunk, or with a girl I'm interested in). I'd use the same theory for the gym.

Ahh for those wondering, I'm 23 and have weighed the same since about grade 9 or 10. I was told when you get to high school your metabolism will slow down and you'll gain some weight. I was cool with that. Then it was after you graduate, then during university... I'm currently a year away from finishing a masters degree, and still, nothing.

For a guy who is funny, smart, makes good money, is an all around good guy, does whatever he can to make sure friends/family are happy, but can't get a girl... dude... what else is left but my weight/appearance?

I don't think it's a matter of being rejected because I'm skinny, but not being on the radar so when something comes up it's like "well yeah we hang out all the time, and have a blast together, etc, but I never thought of him in that way." Whereas if you're overweight, which is common in our society, you're at least on the radar.

I hear you man, I have exactly the same problem. This one girl I can't get over and she picked a Jabba over me. Really does play games with your mind and fuel the adequacy you feel.

[Maritime Q-Scout]

Originally posted by Hack&Lube+Aug 7 2005, 04:48 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Hack&Lube @ Aug 7 2005, 04:48 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Maritime Q-Scout@Aug 7 2005, 01:04 PM
- I know if a guy like Jabba the Hut can get a girl then there must be something more than just looks. But when you're rejected in favour of Jabba... that plays games with your mind.
- As evidenced by my joke in the previous point I have ZERO body strength. While I would go to a gym, it's super embarasing to have people watch you life little to no weight with a struggle. I'd compare it to dancing at a bar, I know I make fun of people that dance like me, so I don't dance (unless I'm drunk, or with a girl I'm interested in). I'd use the same theory for the gym.

Ahh for those wondering, I'm 23 and have weighed the same since about grade 9 or 10. I was told when you get to high school your metabolism will slow down and you'll gain some weight. I was cool with that. Then it was after you graduate, then during university... I'm currently a year away from finishing a masters degree, and still, nothing.

For a guy who is funny, smart, makes good money, is an all around good guy, does whatever he can to make sure friends/family are happy, but can't get a girl... dude... what else is left but my weight/appearance?

I don't think it's a matter of being rejected because I'm skinny, but not being on the radar so when something comes up it's like "well yeah we hang out all the time, and have a blast together, etc, but I never thought of him in that way." Whereas if you're overweight, which is common in our society, you're at least on the radar.

I hear you man, I have exactly the same problem. This one girl I can't get over and she picked a Jabba over me. Really does play games with your mind and fuel the adequacy you feel. [/b][/quote]
KevanGuy... I did the cheeseburger thing in high school. Double Cheese Meals from DQ 4 to 5 times a week.

Not only did the chicks not dig the bugers, I stayed just as small. ;_;


Hack&Lube, generally in the past I could see some redeeming quality about the guy that got the girl I wanted, and took solice in the fact that I just wasn't good enough. But when you're smarter, funnier, more able, make more money (he sits on his parents couch and is unemployed), etc it's real tough to understand what the hell she was thinking.

All I can come up with, is while he's not funnier than me, he looks exactly like this guy who definately is funner than I. But then again, ladies what's so hot about this guy?

Going to Hell for this but... meh

[KevanGuy]

Originally posted by Maritime Q-Scout@Aug 7 2005, 02:34 PM
KevanGuy... I did the cheeseburger thing in high school. Double Cheese Meals from DQ 4 to 5 times a week.

Not only did the chicks not dig the bugers, I stayed just as small. ;_;

First of all, I am talking like 3 or 4 a day. And not DQ burgers. They arent nearly greasy enough. Here is a days worth of meals from the KG Fast Food Weight Gain Diet:

1/2 pounders with cheese from Wnedy's
1 dozen Mozza sticks from Arby's
That Omlette sandwich from BK.
Jr. Bacon Ceeseburgers (maybe 5-6 per day)
Poutine from A&W
6 cans Vanilla Coke



Also, Pizza can really pack it on too. Maybe try eating (on top of the above) three large pizzas a week.

[KevanGuy]

Originally posted by Maritime Q-Scout@Aug 7 2005, 02:34 PM
All I can come up with, is while he's not funnier than me, he looks exactly like this guy who definately is funner than I. But then again, ladies what's so hot about this guy?

Going to Hell for this but... meh

Heh, oh man, I'll tell you what, Id bet my morning doughnut that guy doesnt get laid.

You know Jon, I bet if you quit worrying about it so much you'd find a woman. They can smell your fear and lack of self confidence and its a turn off man. Just friggin go out and have fun. Dont even think about trying to meet the woman of your dreams and I'll bet it happens sooner then later. Though, when it does happen, if she cheats on you and crushes all your dreams dont come cryin back to us.

[CaptainCrunch]

- Captain Crunch, 6 weeks to see changes? As in put on weight, or by lift load you mean I'll go from being able to bench 5lbs (something like that currently haha) to like 25 lbs? wink.gif

Both, your going to put on some pretty good weight since muscle mass is heavier then fat mass, or weight mass, a lot of it again depends on your diet, and what your doing to aid your muscle building. What I tend to do is do 6 weeks of heavy intesive weight work, and then switch to 6 weeks of cutting activities in order to cut some bulk off. You'll also find that your lift load increases a lot during the first 6 weeks, but only if your doing the work properly and working the muscles through a full range of motions, ie building mass in your chest is accomplished by working more then one set of muscle groups, if you just depend on a standard bench press, your not going to gain a lot of muscle mass, but if you do inclines and declines you will for example. I usually find that in the first 6 weeks you can increase your lift load by about 25% then it drops incrementally after that if you continue to do the same routine.

One of the best pieces of excercise advice I ever got was to do a lot of unstable environment work (ie the ball, or tilt boards) since it works not only the main muscle groups, but a lot of the stabilizing muscles that usually don't get a good workout and can cause injuries if they remain relatively week while the surrounding masses get larger and stronger (see incredibly painful torn bicep muscle)

some ideas

The above is a site that gave me some ideas for different workouts.