Population boom: 40% of all humans will be African by end of century

[nik-]

Yeah, Europeans arbitrarily making borders with zero thought put into tribal and ethnic divisions and stripping resources out of regions has never been a problem. I mean look how successful the Middle East has been.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by nik-

I'm pretty sure the African people aren't choosing to mismanage their resources.

Setting aside the years and years the continent was raped by European Colonialism, there is miss-management.


How else do you explain Zimbawe? They went from an exporter to importer. The land reform program destroyed the agriculture sector in that country.

[nik-]

Oh don't get me wrong, there are totally some #######s in power over there ... but that place didn't really have a chance from the start.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by nik-

Oh don't get me wrong, there are totally some #######s in power over there ... but that place didn't really have a chance from the start.

Which place Zimbabwe or Africa across the board?

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

Setting aside the years and years the continent was raped by European Colonialism, there is miss-management.


How else do you explain Zimbawe? They went from an exporter to importer. The land reform program destroyed the agriculture sector in that country.

Explaining Zimbabwe is pretty easy: Robert Mugabe.

It's not easy to go from exploited colony to functioning first world democracy in a generation.

Especially when the physical colonialism is replaced by economic colonialism.

[Bill Bumface]

Originally Posted by nik-

Yeah, Europeans arbitrarily making borders with zero thought put into tribal and ethnic divisions and stripping resources out of regions has never been a problem. I mean look how successful the Middle East has been.

Oh there was thought. If you put a bunch of people who historically don't get along in one nation, they are too busy fighting each other all the time to organize and overthrow their oppressors.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Explaining Zimbabwe is pretty easy: Robert Mugabe.

It's not easy to go from exploited colony to functioning first world democracy in a generation.

Especially when the physical colonialism is replaced by economic colonialism.

Flash, I agree Mugabe, is a #### bag, and yes the change can't happen in a generation. My point is, that had Mugabe, not miss-managed the resources of Zimbabwe then the country would still be able to feed itself and other large parts of Africa.

When I was in Africa I met a white farmer from Zimbabwe. We spoke about his experience with having his farm taken.

This movie is a good ( I suspect slightly biased view) on the experience.

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x20...20p_shortfilms

I am really interested to see if South Africa can successfully transition.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Explaining Zimbabwe is pretty easy: Robert Mugabe.

It's not easy to go from exploited colony to functioning first world democracy in a generation.

Especially when the physical colonialism is replaced by economic colonialism.

I think the Zimbabwe example also illustrates just how good of a diplomat and leader Mandela was in South Africa. Man, that could have turned out a lot different.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

I think the Zimbabwe example also illustrates just how good of a diplomat and leader Mandela was in South Africa. Man, that could have turned out a lot different.

Yeah, I agree.

I think it also illustrates what happens when you back the wrong horse for awhile. Mandela and the RNC succeeded in spite of their colonial history.

It's also much easier to come to power and run a country that has escaped much of western imperialism (by being an imperial power themselves) than it is to come to power and run a country that is still mired in that colonial web like Zimbabwe.

For example, it's easier to utilize the court system when one actually exists than to try to establish one from nothing. Having a functioning civil service and normalized relations with western countries helped the RNC immensely compared to their african political brethren. While 'sovereign' they still exist as states beholden to the IMF/World Bank, which is essentially a foreign policy arm of first world western power.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Yeah, I agree.

I think it also illustrates what happens when you back the wrong horse for awhile. Mandela and the RNC succeeded in spite of their colonial history.

It's also much easier to come to power and run a country that has escaped much of western imperialism (by being an imperial power themselves) than it is to come to power and run a country that is still mired in that colonial web like Zimbabwe.

For example, it's easier to utilize the court system when one actually exists than to try to establish one from nothing. Having a functioning civil service and normalized relations with western countries helped the RNC immensely compared to their african political brethren. While 'sovereign' they still exist as states beholden to the IMF/World Bank, which is essentially a foreign policy arm of first world western power.

RNC? Do you mean ANC?


I really am interested to see how things progress in the next 20-30 years in South Africa. Mandela holds such a strong grip over the country, but as time goes on I think this might slip. I hope it does not, but I worry that as Mandela's memory fades, so might his approach to unfication/reconcilation.

[Flash Walken]

hahaha, yes, I did mean the ANC.

Jesus. I've already had a coffee, too.

I agree with you about South Africa. The ANC is pretty corrupt at this point.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

hahaha, yes, I did mean the ANC.

Jesus. I've already had a coffee, too.

I agree with you about South Africa. The ANC is pretty corrupt at this point.

Sadly, I think they are all corrupt.

I know several families that are moving or in the process of starting the move to Canada from SA.

I hope I am wrong, but I think the next 50 years is going to be a sad time for the country.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

Sadly, I think they are all corrupt.

I know several families that are moving or in the process of starting the move to Canada from SA.

I hope I am wrong, but I think the next 50 years is going to be a sad time for the country.

I liken it a bit to Alberta politics.

The same political party has been in power for decades, their leadership pretty much not in doubt.

This will always, naturally, spawn corruption.

I think though, that it's an important historical discussion too, as much of this is rooted in the fall of apartheid and the concessions that original government had to make internationally to keep itself in power, but that's a whole other discussion I think.

Anytime you have political certainty I think it's a sign of 2 things, 1) A dysfunctional electoral system and 2) political corruption

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

I liken it a bit to Alberta politics.

The same political party has been in power for decades, their leadership pretty much not in doubt.

This will always, naturally, spawn corruption.

I think though, that it's an important historical discussion too, as much of this is rooted in the fall of apartheid and the concessions that original government had to make internationally to keep itself in power, but that's a whole other discussion I think.

Anytime you have political certainty I think it's a sign of 2 things, 1) A dysfunctional electoral system and 2) political corruption

Don't disagree.

The DA in the Western Cape has had problems dealing with the ANC.

As I said I hope I am wrong, but I worry about the future of that beautiful country.

I really want to take my kids there to experience what i experienced.

I also worry about the safety of friends still in the country.

[VladtheImpaler]

But for whitey Africa would be just like South Korea today or just like Avatar. With crocodiles. Crocodiles!

[combustiblefuel]

Originally Posted by MelBridgeman

Who cares? We all have ancestors from africa...time to see past color

Do we?? If your argument is because of "Lucy" because she was the oldest human remains discovered you would be wrong. Last year in Spain they discovered a 400 000 year old remains with DNA links of Serbians.

[PsYcNeT]

Originally Posted by combustiblefuel

Do we?? If your argument is because of "Lucy" because she was the oldest human remains discovered you would be wrong. Last year in Spain they discovered a 400 000 year old remains with DNA links of Serbians.

I ain't never met no Serbian ape.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by combustiblefuel

Do we?? If your argument is because of "Lucy" because she was the oldest human remains discovered you would be wrong. Last year in Spain they discovered a 400 000 year old remains with DNA links of Serbians.

It's not based on Lucy, it's based on mitochondrial Eve.

[troutman]

There was a nice moment at Afrikadey!

Mokoomba performed, and blacks and whites from Zimbabwe were dancing together, draped in Zimbabwe flags. Proud of their heritage.

[troutman]

Originally Posted by combustiblefuel

Do we?? If your argument is because of "Lucy" because she was the oldest human remains discovered you would be wrong. Last year in Spain they discovered a 400 000 year old remains with DNA links of Serbians.

And we are scatterlings of Africa
Both you and I
We are on the road to Phelamanga
Beneath a copper sky
And we are scatterlings of Africa
On a journey to the stars
Far below we leave forever
Dreams of what we were
Hawu beke Mama-ye! Mama-ye!
In the beginning
Beneath the copper sky
Ancient bones
In the dust of Olduvai
Who made us, here, and why
Remember!