Building the Defense

[Joker]

Originally Posted by Miniac

Draft Ekblad! Big #1 dman.

Spoiler!

Love his playoff beard at the age of 17!

Im sold on that pic alone. Think what that guy will look like at like 28 years old hahahaha.

[EYE_Overstand]

and Ekblad is a much needed and coveted RHD

[Stay Golden]

Gio, Wideman
O'Brien, Brodie
Smith, Russell

Ramage
Wotherspoon
i forgot Butler, oh well.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

The problem with comparing the defense of 2003-04 is that it was the old NHL, the obstruction, hooking, holding, crosschecking NHL. Back in those days the value of defensive defensemen who were marginal puck movers was much higher because they were allowed to clutch and grab more skilled forwards.

The game has changed and guys like Warrener, Sarich and Regehr became less valuable as they could no longer obstruct, clutch and grab guys. So I think comparing to pre-lockout NHL is questionable.

[lanny9]

I don't think we can underestimate how much of an impact an Ekblad could have on our future team. Although it is too early to tell how this season will transpire as he has only played one game and is only 17 with a later birthday than most of the high draft eligible(from quick glance). He is currently listed at 6'4" and 217lbs, I mean he is 17 years old, he could still grow 2 inches and put on another 10-20 lbs(although may be on the high end for weight at 237?)

If this season plays out as things are listed today with he and Reinhart looking like either could be 1/2 then I would go for Ekblad and really stink it up next year in order to get McDavid. If Eklbad is all he is said to be he could be your true future all-star #1 defenceman that we have not really had in a very long time.

Like I say, it is early in the season and who knows, a clear cut front runner may yet emerge that you can't help but select, but if Ekblad turns in a decent season and continues to show the dedication he has then he would be my pick in June. We need that clear cut, big, minute eating, point producing #1 defenceman and I do not see that currently in our organization unless Kanzig really keeps improving like he seemed to have last season(although I think he has it in him to surprise us all).

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

The problem with comparing the defense of 2003-04 is that it was the old NHL, the obstruction, hooking, holding, crosschecking NHL. Back in those days the value of defensive defensemen who were marginal puck movers was much higher because they were allowed to clutch and grab more skilled forwards.

The game has changed and guys like Warrener, Sarich and Regehr became less valuable as they could no longer obstruct, clutch and grab guys. So I think comparing to pre-lockout NHL is questionable.

Which is why I compared a defense group after the lockout with all the new rules being strictly enforced. That group was 7th in goals against. I was more comparing with that group which still had Regehr and Warrener in the mix.

[Wolven]

Originally Posted by lanny9

I don't think we can underestimate how much of an impact an Ekblad could have on our future team. Although it is too early to tell how this season will transpire as he has only played one game and is only 17 with a later birthday than most of the high draft eligible(from quick glance). He is currently listed at 6'4" and 217lbs, I mean he is 17 years old, he could still grow 2 inches and put on another 10-20 lbs(although may be on the high end for weight at 237?)

I have already seen Ekblad listed at 6'5". This could be an error or maybe he has grown since his least measurements that everyone else is reporting on. Considering how young he is you almost have to expect him to grow a bit more.

Originally Posted by lanny9

If this season plays out as things are listed today with he and Reinhart looking like either could be 1/2 then I would go for Ekblad and really stink it up next year in order to get McDavid. If Eklbad is all he is said to be he could be your true future all-star #1 defenceman that we have not really had in a very long time.

Like I say, it is early in the season and who knows, a clear cut front runner may yet emerge that you can't help but select, but if Ekblad turns in a decent season and continues to show the dedication he has then he would be my pick in June. We need that clear cut, big, minute eating, point producing #1 defenceman and I do not see that currently in our organization unless Kanzig really keeps improving like he seemed to have last season(although I think he has it in him to surprise us all).

Even if Kanzig improves beyond expectations, I think it would be awesome to have both of them in the lineup (along with Breen). Having 3 guys of that size on the blueline would be really something... Brodie would look like a dwarf!

[sureLoss]

While I like what Ekblad brings to the table, there are still a lot of question marks on him.

During TSN's preseason ranking show Bob McKenzie said there are scouts that think Ekblad will max out as a #3 defenseman at the the NHL level. Obviously a great season can go a long way to changing minds, but to say Ekblad is the answer seems premature at this point.

[lanny9]

Like I say, we need to see how this season progresses, there could still be a clear cut favourite pull ahead of the crowd, you never know with 17/18 year olds and would n't be a the first time it happened.

[Wolven]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

While I like what Ekblad brings to the table, there are still a lot of question marks on him.

During TSN's preseason ranking show Bob McKenzie said there are scouts that think Ekblad will max out as a #3 defenseman at the the NHL level. Obviously a great season can go a long way to changing minds, but to say Ekblad is the answer seems premature at this point.

That's definitely fair to keep in mind. A lot will likely change between now and next summer when it comes to the analysis of the 2014 draft class and even then there will likely not be a lot of definitive conclusions to be made about a bunch of 18 year olds.

For now it appears I have switched over from Reinhart - Ekblad to Ekblad - Reinhart in my draft preference for the Flames next summer. I'm sure its bound to change again as the season progresses and more information comes to light about these kids.

[YYC in LAX]

Did anyone else watch Kanzig in practice at Winsport? Full respect for him, but he was absolutely out of his league as far as game speed and conditioning goes. Would love for him to work out of course, but it appears he needs to get used to NHL speed of play and that'll probably take at least 2 years.

Perhaps he was hurt or banged up but I doubt the team would have kept him out there all practice if he suffered a serious injury.

Kanzig is huuuuuuuge no doubt, and I really hope he develops into a rock on the blue line. Love the upside.

[stemit14]

Originally Posted by Wolven

That's definitely fair to keep in mind. A lot will likely change between now and next summer when it comes to the analysis of the 2014 draft class and even then there will likely not be a lot of definitive conclusions to be made about a bunch of 18 year olds.

For now it appears I have switched over from Reinhart - Ekblad to Ekblad - Reinhart in my draft preference for the Flames next summer. I'm sure its bound to change again as the season progresses and more information comes to light about these kids.

I would much prefer going with Reinhart... Can't be too deep at centre ice and it would pretty much lock down that position for the flames going forward with S. Reinhart, Monahan, Backlund, and M. Reinhart. The defense could more easily filled out with later picks and trades. It's almost impossible to do that with the centre ice position.

[Psytic]

Were getting Ekblad and Phaneuf next yr so we will be better on the back end pretty soon

[sureLoss]

Originally Posted by Wolven

For now it appears I have switched over from Reinhart - Ekblad to Ekblad - Reinhart in my draft preference for the Flames next summer. I'm sure its bound to change again as the season progresses and more information comes to light about these kids.

I guess the upside for Flames fans is that the Flames organizationally need both players if they can live up to the potential of a top line center and a top pairing D.

What does concern me is that this draft looks to be weak, perhaps even weaker than the 2012 draft.

Also from the preliminary rankings, the strength of the 2014 draft is the depth of Cs and LW/Cs. Depth on D for this draft appears to be extremely weak on top of the weak draft overall.

Perhaps the 2014 draft is not the one to look to build up the defensive core.

[Husky]

Rather we continue to draft higher end forwards then higher end defense while we have top 10 1st round picks.

When was the last time a team was carried on their back or won the cup because of a D versus a forward....

[Wolven]

Originally Posted by stemit14

I would much prefer going with Reinhart... Can't be too deep at centre ice and it would pretty much lock down that position for the flames going forward with S. Reinhart, Monahan, Backlund, and M. Reinhart. The defense could more easily filled out with later picks and trades. It's almost impossible to do that with the centre ice position.

The Defense group in general can be filled out by later picks and trades but not that #1 position. Acquiring a #1 Dman is almost as hard as acquiring a #1C and does not often come up in the later picks, trades or UFA. Not unless we get extremely lucky.

If we keep putting off trying to draft a high end Dman then we run the risk of turning into the Oilers where we end up very one dimensional with a bunch of strong forwards and a terrible backend. Also, the timing to draft a top of the class Dman makes sense. It will likely take a couple years for him to develop to the NHL level, which would line up with the rest of the rebuild.

We want to have a balanced roster in a couple years time with strong players in every position and some reasonable ELCs to balance out with those bigger contracts that the high talent kids seem to be earning these days.

[lanny9]

Originally Posted by Wolven

The Defense group in general can be filled out by later picks and trades but not that #1 position. Acquiring a #1 Dman is almost as hard as acquiring a #1C and does not often come up in the later picks, trades or UFA. Not unless we get extremely lucky.

If we keep putting off trying to draft a high end Dman then we run the risk of turning into the Oilers where we end up very one dimensional with a bunch of strong forwards and a terrible backend. Also, the timing to draft a top of the class Dman makes sense. It will likely take a couple years for him to develop to the NHL level, which would line up with the rest of the rebuild.

Could not agree more, Dmen take time to make their game, an extra two years or more as being responsible in your own end, positioning etc is harder part of the game to learn than an offensive forward. Our glaring hole going forward is #1D, I feel with Monahan, Jankowski,Reinhart, Knight, Granlund we could be ok if they all develop into what the team thinks they will. We have potential #1(monahan/jankowski), 2(Monahan/Jankowksi), 3rd Granlund/Reihart with potential offense and a good speedy shut down guy in Reinhart and even maybe knight. If one of these guys do not turn out there is always guys who can convert from wing, especially on a team that has a lot of depth at that position like we may have on left.

Plus we could always hope to pick up McDavid the following year, or if not McDavid there looks to be some very fine centres following him.

[stemit14]

Originally Posted by Wolven

The Defense group in general can be filled out by later picks and trades but not that #1 position. Acquiring a #1 Dman is almost as hard as acquiring a #1C and does not often come up in the later picks, trades or UFA. Not unless we get extremely lucky.

If we keep putting off trying to draft a high end Dman then we run the risk of turning into the Oilers where we end up very one dimensional with a bunch of strong forwards and a terrible backend. Also, the timing to draft a top of the class Dman makes sense. It will likely take a couple years for him to develop to the NHL level, which would line up with the rest of the rebuild.

We want to have a balanced roster in a couple years time with strong players in every position and some reasonable ELCs to balance out with those bigger contracts that the high talent kids seem to be earning these days.

I might be thinking way far ahead and assuming the stars align properly but it would sure be great to draft Sam Reinhart in 2014 and package a pick and a player(s) for Griffin Reinhart sometime after that. It would really give us a stud defenseman who has already been developing for years and we would have all 3 of the Reinhart brothers. I know it's a pipe dream to think the islanders would be willing to trade Griffin Reinhart but you never know.

[TheDebaser]

Originally Posted by stemit14

I might be thinking way far ahead and assuming the stars align properly but it would sure be great to draft Sam Reinhart in 2014 and package a pick and a player(s) for Griffin Reinhart sometime after that. It would really give us a stud defenseman who has already been developing for years and we would have all 3 of the Reinhart brothers. I know it's a pipe dream to think the islanders would be willing to trade Griffin Reinhart but you never know.

That's not really a pipe dream at all, check out our LW depth.

Sven Baertschi
John Gaudreau
Ken Agostino
Morgan Klimchuk
Michael Ferland
Ben Hanowski
Markus Granlund

We could package one of those players a 2nd and Stajan or Cammy to grab a guy like that pretty easily. That might even be overpayment, but we could definitely afford it.

[kyuss275]

Originally Posted by TheDebaser

That's not really a pipe dream at all, check out our LW depth.

Sven Baertschi
John Gaudreau
Ken Agostino
Morgan Klimchuk
Michael Ferland
Ben Hanowski
Markus Granlund

We could package one of those players a 2nd and Stajan or Cammy to grab a guy like that pretty easily. That might even be overpayment, but we could definitely afford it.

Other than Sven and Gaudreau they would want a 1st included with anybody else on that list. I presume that the tade would happen at the draft so Cammi and Stajan would already be gone.