So, where do we find our Shea Weber ?

[stemit14]

I think the only way to get guys like that is to scout really well and develop even better... That means patience. Guys like weber, sutter, keith, and chara were never projected to be as good as they are now. I would advise against picking over-hyped defenseman high in the draft. They rarely truen out as good as the gems in the mid-round

[blankall]

Originally Posted by Poe969

Weber went 49th in the draft. That's a stat good enough for me. If anyone thought he'd be close to as good as he is, he probably would have gone in the top 5. The draft is a crapshoot because there are no real guarntee's, you have to take a chance on players and hope they'll pan out. The Flames lack that true #1 defensman and drafting defensemen seems to make the most sense.

Beyond Weber:

Keith: 54th overall.
Subban: 43rd
Letang: 62nd
Yandle: 105
Kronwall: 29
Karlsson: 15
Chara: 56
Green: 29
Edler: 91
Girardi: undrafted

I'm sure there are many more examples. With forwards a much higher proportion are going to be former top 5 picks.

[Da_Chief]

You have to hope one of these guys like Wotherspoon, Ramage, Brodie develop into a star. Draft is the only way really.

[BigTuna]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Maybe when Weber was 21. But Weber kept getting smarter and better defensively. Phaneuf stalled, and he's not a kid anymore. He has topped out at what he is - a pp specialist who can occasionally make a big hit.

Phaneuf is much more than that. He faces the toughest competition in the NHl and is a huge minutes-cruncher.

[Coach]

Phaneuf and Weber shouldn't even be in the same sentence.

[SebC]

We'll get a stud defenseman whenever he seem like the BPA in our draft spot. Going out of our way to get one will only hurt the rebuild.

[djsFlames]

Originally Posted by blankall

Beyond Weber:

Keith: 54th overall.
Subban: 43rd
Letang: 62nd
Yandle: 105
Kronwall: 29
Karlsson: 15
Chara: 56
Green: 29
Edler: 91
Girardi: undrafted

I'm sure there are many more examples. With forwards a much higher proportion are going to be former top 5 picks.

Sieloff: 42nd..

[PlayfulGenius]

Originally Posted by djsFlames

Sieloff: 42nd..

Future Captain of the Calgary Flames... Book It!!!!

[FlameZilla]

Ekblad is the solution.

We won't be winning anytime soon, so we have plenty of time to wait for him to develop.

[thymebalm]

Beyond Tyler Wotherspoon, I don't project any of our d prospects to break into the NHL in a meaningful way.

I think it could happen for any of the other guys, but Tyler Wotherspoon just seems like the kind of career arch that launches into the NHL the most often.

[Calgary4LIfe]

Flames may already have their stud in the system already.

How many people legitimately thought that Brodie would be a legitimate top pairing talent? Some feel he is already there, some feel he is working his way there right now. Few (if any) probably envisioned him patrolling the blueline for the Flames the way he has.

Flames need to keep doing EXACTLY what they are doing - drafting well. Most of holes in the organization are getting plugged up quickly. When the Flames are ready to compete, they will hopefully plug up the rest of the holes through trades and UFA signings. Flames will either draft their big stud on D, or they will trade for or sign one in an off-season at some point.

Regardless of how super that one d-man is, he will need a lot of talent surrounding him. No need to rush and panic. Year one of the rebuild. Some young d-men already making a case for themselves to make the team. More that need a bit more work. More drafts coming up. I would say things are looking really good right now.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by playmaker

...Correct me if I'm wrong but the Flames have to choose from the following options:

1. Hope for the best and see one of our prospects (Wotherspoon, Roy, Ramage ?) sky-rocket to the elite level.

2. Draft D heavy next year, even when highly skilled forwards are available...

It has already been said a few times, but I thought it best to be direct in my response to your post.

You're wrong. This is not the only option—nor is it even a good option that the Flames should consider. Teams should only very rarely draft by position to fill weaknesses in their prospect pool, and it should NEVER become a full-scale draft philosophy that replaces picking the best player available. A team like the Flames simply cannot afford to let highly skilled players pass because of a perceived need, especially since there are quite a number of highly pronounced needs to begin with.

A much better option—in my opinion, the very best option available—is for this team to simply keep doing what it is currently doing: their due diligence in scouting and drafting, and picking the best player available each year with little or no regard for his position played.

[driveway]

While the ideal solution would be for someone who's already in the system to develop into a perennial Norris candidate, I think we should pay a lot more attention to the UFA option.

Top level D-men hit the UFA market a lot more often than first-line forwards. Chara, Suter, Pronger all spring to mind. A combination of hitting their peak later and teams being more inclined to lock up their flashy forwards gives us more chances to grab a veteran stud on the Free Market.

Draft and develop well, become good and we'll be an attractive market for UFA's again, as we have been in the very recent past.

Between 2015 and 2018 - ideally our window to be a quality team - Green, Staal, Seabrook, Byfuglien, Schenn, Shattenkirk, Hedman, Fowler, and Carlson all become free agents. There will be others too.

Draft and develop is the priority, but UFA would be our second-best option, I'm sure of it.

[PeteMoss]

Given all the Predators have won a total of 2 playoff series during Weber's career (most with another #1 guy in Sutur)... is he really the right guy to aiming for?

[Knalus]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

It has already been said a few times, but I thought it best to be direct in my response to your post.

You're wrong. This is not the only option—nor is it even a good option that the Flames should consider. Teams should only very rarely draft by position to fill weaknesses in their prospect pool, and it should NEVER become a full-scale draft philosophy that replaces picking the best player available. A team like the Flames simply cannot afford to let highly skilled players pass because of a perceived need, especially since there are quite a number of highly pronounced needs to begin with.

A much better option—in my opinion, the very best option available—is for this team to simply keep doing what it is currently doing: their due diligence in scouting and drafting, and picking the best player available each year with little or no regard for his position played.

I would agree with one caveat - goaltenders in the first round are not the best decision.

[moon]

Originally Posted by edslunch

It's conventional wisdom that D and even moreso G are draft crap shoots. Are there any statistics to back that up? Not disagreeing just curious since there seem to be stats for everything these days

I think crapshoot is a little strong of a word and it certainly isn't as spread out as it is with goalies. I think Center is the position that seems most tied to draft position (with obvious outliers) and wingers higher as well but even with defensemen for the most part you get the studs in the top two rounds.

Looking at Canada's defense for the upcoming Olympics you have: Doughty (2nd overall), Weber (2nd round), Pietrangelo (top 5), Keith (2nd round) as the locks with Seabrook (1st round), Bouwmeester (top 3), Staal (1st round), Subban (2nd round), Letang (3rd round), Hamhuis (1st round) and Boyle (undrafted) as the likely other guys on the team.

Even fringe guys on the team are mainly first and second rounders (Phaneuf, Green, Vlasic, Hamonic).

Looking at non-Canadian Defensemen that are considered top level guys by some Karlsson, Carlson, McDonough, Suter, the crappy American on St, Louis are all first rounders. Chara is obviously a big outlier being drafted later but even he was a 3rd round pick.

So yes it is as clear cut as C (where most of the best are top 5 picks) but it certainly is as random as goaltending and you most likely need to draft a guy in the first two rounds to hope to get a guy who is at elite level (competing for a spot on team Canada).

[WilderPegasus]

Originally Posted by BigTuna

Phaneuf is much more than that. He faces the toughest competition in the NHl and is a huge minutes-cruncher.

What a silly comment. Especially considering the division he played in last season that didn't have any of the best scorers in the league in it.

And playing huge minutes doesn't mean much when you completely meltdown in the biggest game his team has played in about a decade. The Bruins comeback in game 7 wouldn't have happened if the Leafs had a true #1 defenceman.

[moon]

Originally Posted by WilderPegasus

What a silly comment. Especially considering the division he played in last season that didn't have any of the best scorers in the league in it.

And playing huge minutes doesn't mean much when you completely meltdown in the biggest game his team has played in about a decade. The Bruins comeback in game 7 wouldn't have happened if the Leafs had a true #1 defenceman.

It wouldn't have happened if they had a true #1 goalie to make stops, or a true "1 center to win key draws, or a true #2 defenseman to help clear the puck the numerous times they had a chance or a true #1 LW to score when the Bruins had the empty net or a true #1 coach to teach the players how to play with a 3 goal lead and 10 minutes left or a true #1 team pyschologist to teach them how to not choke.

Phaneuf played the top minutes on a play-off team that made it in as a 5th seed not on some last minute fluke run on a team that is widely regarded here as having very little talent. Phaneuf wasn't supported by Keith, Weber, Doughty, Lidstrom and a bunch of Selke trophy forwards. He wasn't getting bailed out by Lundqvist or Quick back there. He lead a team with mediocre support in minutes played and his team was good enough with him in that role to make the play-offs and take the SCF Bruins to the limit.

I don't get why so many people still try to make it out like Phaneuf was hot garbage and the Leafs made it by on fairy dust and pixies.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

For those worried about drafting a defenseman high, don't forget that Brodie was drafted in the 4th round, BUT if anyone thinks Kulak or Culkin are going to be impact defensemen on Brodie's level remember this: Chris Butler was also drafted in the 4th round.

From what we've seen Kulak has a looong way to go to make the NHL, and Culkin has some holes in his game that will definitely take some time to fill.

Mark Giordano-undrafted signed as a free agent
T.J. Brodie-4th round
Dennis Wideman-8th round
Shane O'Brien-8th round
Chris Butler-4th round
Mark Cundari-undrafted signed as a free agent
Derek Smith-undrafted signed as a free agent
Kris Russell-3rd round

Look at that defense group and tell me you need to draft high to get NHL defensemen. For my money Russell is the worst of the group and he was drafted highest. Wideman, even with his flaws, is an incredible defenseman for an 8th round pick. Giordano...'nuff said.

My point is when you look at where we drafted some of these guys and how good they look already at such a young age, I feel we have our defense corps for years to come. If it's absolutely necessary we can always sign or trade for that established NHL top defender, but I say wait for the kids to arrive:

Tyler Wotherspoon-2nd round
Patrick Sieloff-2nd round
John Ramage-4th round
Ryan Culkin-5th round
Keegan Kanzig-3rd round
Eric Roy-5th round
Brett Kulak-4th round

There's my top 7 in about 3 years time without considering how good Brodie will be by then. That is without even considering who we could draft this year or players picked up through free agency or trade (which I am sure we will do at some point).

Back to the OPs point: I don't know if any of these current defenders are franchise defensemen, but I'm willing to wait and see for now and continue drafting and acquiring assets and let their development fall where it may.

[moon]

Originally Posted by Cali Flames Fan

For those worried about drafting a defenseman high, don't forget that Brodie was drafted in the 4th round, BUT if anyone thinks Kulak or Culkin are going to be impact defensemen on Brodie's level remember this: Chris Butler was also drafted in the 4th round.

From what we've seen Kulak has a looong way to go to make the NHL, and Culkin has some holes in his game that will definitely take some time to fill.

Mark Giordano-undrafted signed as a free agent
T.J. Brodie-4th round
Dennis Wideman-8th round
Shane O'Brien-8th round
Chris Butler-4th round
Mark Cundari-undrafted signed as a free agent
Derek Smith-undrafted signed as a free agent
Kris Russell-3rd round

Look at that defense group and tell me you need to draft high to get NHL defensemen. For my money Russell is the worst of the group and he was drafted highest. Wideman, even with his flaws, is an incredible defenseman for an 8th round pick. Giordano...'nuff said.

Looking at that defense proves that you need to draft high as that is likely the worst defensive group in the league or at least bottom 5.