Gillis claims to have a deal for Luongo...kind of

[Erick Estrada]

This would be a first for a GM to tell the media a deal has been agreed on but not complete because the other team can't do it at the moment would it not? IMO there probably was such talk with a team but the chances of it happening are minute (if it was really close he would never come public with it) and he's simply bringing it up to the media to drive up speculation and possibly put pressure on teams that have offered Gillis these 'unacceptable' deals.

It's obvious that Gillis is a little frustrated at the moment with the team's injuries and his lack of options due to the ludicrous contract he handed to Luongo.

[Stay Golden]

Gillis is just making an ass out of himself making this limp comment to the media. lol

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Tinordi

Luongo is a significant upgrade on Fleury IMO, rumours of Luongo's ineptitude are greatly exaggerated.

And, even if that ineptitude weren't exaggerated, it's difficult to make an argument that Fleury is better in any capacity.

[AR_Six]

It's surprising to me to see people jumping to the conclusion that "of course Gillis is full of crap and no such deal or team exists".

The idea that a GM is flat out lying about a factual matter seems less than likely to me. I am used to GMs being dishonest about opinion matters - i.e. "We're very confident in our goaltending situation with Scrivens and Reimer", or "We have no current plans to do X" (well, what constitutes a "plan" in your mind?) and things that you can sort of fudge or equivocate on. That I can see. But someone coming out and saying something demonstrably untrue like "there is a deal in place with club X pending them doing something with a guy on their roster"? I guess Holmgren lied to an agent about the Richards trade but it just doesn't seem like something that happens terribly often.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by AR_Six

It's surprising to me to see people jumping to the conclusion that "of course Gillis is full of crap and no such deal or team exists".

The idea that a GM is flat out lying about a factual matter seems less than likely to me. I am used to GMs being dishonest about opinion matters - i.e. "We're very confident in our goaltending situation with Scrivens and Reimer", or "We have no current plans to do X" (well, what constitutes a "plan" in your mind?) and things that you can sort of fudge or equivocate on. That I can see. But someone coming out and saying something demonstrably untrue like "there is a deal in place with club X pending them doing something with a guy on their roster"? I guess Holmgren lied to an agent about the Richards trade but it just doesn't seem like something that happens terribly often.

Nobody is saying he's flat out lying. What they are saying is that he's blowing smoke which is exactly what he is doing here. I don't doubt that he's discussed with a team that is very interested but can't make the deal unless they move a certain player/contract. That's what he said. However the fact he came out and said it is probably because the chances of that trade being completed is very slim or he would have kept his mouth shut and waited for the other team to move said player. GM's don't come out early and announce deals before they are complete which tells me this deal he talks of is of very remote possibility.

[The Fonz]

Originally Posted by Mean Mr. Mustard

Always? Big fan of his at Cornell? Or just his 12 games with the Leafs? People here jump on Schneider for not being proven enough to be a #1 goaltender and then proclaim a guy the same age with far less experience and worse statistics to be one?

I never proclaimed Scrivens to be a #1. Don't exaggerate. All I said was I could see him being a decent goaltender, and that the Leafs should be patient in all of this instead of overpaying for Luongo.

As for having "far less experience and worse statistics" than Schneider, I'd say not by much...

Scrivens - Sept 1986
NCAA 117GP .930 sv%
AHL 72GP .925 sv%
NHL 14GP .905 sv%

Schneider - March 1986
NCAA 99GP .925 sv%
AHL 136GP .920 sv%
NHL 69GP .926 sv%

[AR_Six]

Okay fair enough so if that's the case then it's ENTIRELY legitimate to speculate on who that team might be and who the player might be. So as long as we're on the same page there, then let the insanity roll on!

This will never stop being entertaining.

[Lanny'sDaMan]

AR_Six: I will point out that D. Sutter enjoyed lying to media types daily. And I mean whole cloth fabrications.

[Flame19,289]

So how long until this thread is merged with the Niederreiter thread?

[Mean Mr. Mustard]

Originally Posted by The Fonz

I never proclaimed Scrivens to be a #1. Don't exaggerate. All I said was I could see him being a decent goaltender, and that the Leafs should be patient in all of this instead of overpaying for Luongo.

As for having "far less experience and worse statistics" than Schneider, I'd say not by much...

Scrivens - Sept 1986
NCAA 117GP .930 sv%
AHL 72GP .925 sv%
NHL 14GP .905 sv%

Schneider - March 1986
NCAA 99GP .925 sv%
AHL 136GP .920 sv%
NHL 69GP .926 sv%

Just looking at statistics alone doesn't tell you much, Schnieder played at a younger age on a worse team than Scrivens. Every goaltender on the Marlies was able to put up a really good save percentage Gustavson was able to put up a .955 sv% (albeit in 5 games)... Mark Owuya put up a .929 sv%.

Personally I think that it would be foolish for the Leafs not to kick the tires on Luongo a bit.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Tinordi

Luongo is a significant upgrade on Fleury IMO, rumours of Luongo's ineptitude are greatly exaggerated.

While true, saying that Luongo is a significant upgrade on Fleury would also be a great exaggeration.

Furthermore, Fleury is 28 and tied up at $5M until he is 31. Short contract means that he'll likely bee signed at same or less under a reduced cap system whereas Luongo is locked up until the second coming of Christ at $5.3M.

I take a younger guy with a shorter contract that will benefit the team under a reduced cap over a much older guy with a much longer contract who will never re-sign let alone even play it out and then you have to find another goaltender much sooner.

If there is no significant advantage to Luongo over Fleury that reeks of a terrible move for Pittsburgh.

[カナダ人です]

Would be interesting to see if Philly loses tonight to go to 0-3...

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Locke

While true, saying that Luongo is a significant upgrade on Fleury would also be a great exaggeration.

Furthermore, Fleury is 28 and tied up at $5M until he is 31. Short contract means that he'll likely bee signed at same or less under a reduced cap system whereas Luongo is locked up until the second coming of Christ at $5.3M.

I take a younger guy with a shorter contract that will benefit the team under a reduced cap over a much older guy with a much longer contract who will never re-sign let alone even play it out and then you have to find another goaltender much sooner.

If there is no significant advantage to Luongo over Fleury that reeks of a terrible move for Pittsburgh.

I think Fleury is one of the worst starters in the league and view the upgrade as obvious.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by AR_Six

It's surprising to me to see people jumping to the conclusion that "of course Gillis is full of crap and no such deal or team exists".

The idea that a GM is flat out lying about a factual matter seems less than likely to me. I am used to GMs being dishonest about opinion matters - i.e. "We're very confident in our goaltending situation with Scrivens and Reimer", or "We have no current plans to do X" (well, what constitutes a "plan" in your mind?) and things that you can sort of fudge or equivocate on. That I can see. But someone coming out and saying something demonstrably untrue like "there is a deal in place with club X pending them doing something with a guy on their roster"? I guess Holmgren lied to an agent about the Richards trade but it just doesn't seem like something that happens terribly often.

GM's flat out lie all the time. Most coaching changes or big trades are preceded by a vote of confidence, for instance.

But the point in this case is that there is no point to Gillis revealing that he might have a trade done, pending another deal by the other team. He has nothing to gain by saying this if it is true - he just bides his time and completes the transaction when he can.

However, consider this: Consider the theory that the Canucks have a deal in principle with a team, say Philly, pending their ability to move someone, say Bryzgalov. You are the GM of say, the Sharks, and you are taking to Philly about Bryzgalov. Now you know that the Flyers are desperate to make this move so they can get Luongo. As the GM of the Sharks, you might lower your offer to take advantage of Philly's perceived position of desperation.

Gillis doesn't help his own team out by saying this, but he can hurt his theoretical trading partner. It doesn't make sense if there is a real trade But trying to sell his own fan base, or trying to sell a wavering suitor does make sense..

[AR_Six]

Well, I think the situation you describe whereby the trade partner is hamstrung by the comment is probably not that likely because no one knows who this mystery team actually is. But in general I agree that there is no good reason to say what he said.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

I think Fleury is one of the worst starters in the league and view the upgrade as obvious.

Luongo is probably an upgrade. But I am not sure he is significant enough to warrant taking on an albatross of a contract AND giving up anything of value.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

I think Fleury is one of the worst starters in the league and view the upgrade as obvious.

Okay, I dont see it that way, I think Fleury and Luongo are basically even in terms of ability, and I place them in top 10-15 starting goaltenders in the league.

[AR_Six]

Originally Posted by Locke

Okay, I dont see it that way, I think Fleury and Luongo are basically even in terms of ability, and I place them in top 10-15 starting goaltenders in the league.

After the Pens' elimination last year Derek Zona wrote a great article on how the one good playoff run Fleury had allowed the media to create a narrative around him that doesn't reflect reality. Well worth a read:

http://www.coppernblue.com/2012/4/25...fleury-good-no

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by AR_Six

Well, I think the situation you describe whereby the trade partner is hamstrung by the comment is probably not that likely because no one knows who this mystery team actually is. But in general I agree that there is no good reason to say what he said.

Lets be honest here, the mystery team is looking to move a goaltender to make room for Luongo. Any NHL team in talks to acquire a goaltender not named Luongo will be raising their eyebrows.

[Bertuzzied]

Luongo isn't going anywhere unless the Canucks 1st rounder is going with him.

hahahahaha 10 more years! 10 more years!